FAQ |
Members List |
Social Groups |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
#1
|
||||
|
||||
Muncie 3 speed
My 16 year old son and I just put a Muncie (not Saginaw) 3 speed into his 65 Tempest. We pulled it, along with a 73 Pontiac 350, out of a 64 Skylark, so obviously not the original installation.
Out of curiosity (and boredom lol), I decided to try to figure out what it originally came out of. The partial VIN is 23A259665 (see picture). So....clearly Pontiac, and 1973. Google tells me "A" is Lakewood, GA. They didn't make Firebirds or Venturas there, so that eliminates F body and X body. I don't think you could get a 350 or a 3 speed in a 73 full size car, so it leaves A or G body. No manual trans G bodies after 71, so it has to be A body. Grand Ams didn't come with a 350, so that only leaves a 73 LeMans that this could have come in. Am I right? Did I miss anything or have any incorrect information? Really, none of this matters, it's just my curiosity. Plus, I didn't realize Pontiac used the Muncie 3 speed. I thought they only used the Saginaw. Any thoughts? Thanks, Importsmasher
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
The Muncie replaced the Dearborn HD three speed in 1970 in the A and F bodies, The B body carried the Dearborn one more year until 71.
The Saginaw was for light duty applications.
__________________
Ed 1968 GTO (Thanks Mom) 2006 Silverado 2007 Cadillac SRX 2015 Chevy Express 2024 Cadillac LYRIQ |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Good information, thanks! But wouldn't a 350 2 barrel LeMans qualify as light duty?
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
You would think so. OPH probably knows the details about 350s.
__________________
Ed 1968 GTO (Thanks Mom) 2006 Silverado 2007 Cadillac SRX 2015 Chevy Express 2024 Cadillac LYRIQ |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
I got one out of a 73 Lemans with 350 2bbl., manual disc brakes, no air cond., manual steering with shock assist, had smog pump set up.
Muncie 3 speed trans., May still have the transmission.
__________________
You never know what I might have that you are looking for. EMAIL me. Also check out my other ads here on PY. Just click on user name to view other ads. USPS Money Orders or Wal-Mart to Wal-Mart money gram wire transfer -preferred payments. If Payment doesn't show up in 3-4 days, I move on to the next person that wants it. Serious Inquiries Only - Shipping Isn't Free. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
My 73 Sport Coupe is an original 350 2 barrel, dual exhaust, HD Muncie 3 speed with 3:23 gears. Not very common but man fun to drive
|
The Following User Says Thank You to 73SportCoupe For This Useful Post: | ||
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Importsmasher
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
The Following User Says Thank You to importsmasher For This Useful Post: | ||
#8
|
||||
|
||||
My guess is that this is from a Lemans;
I believe that for 1972-1974, outside of trucks, these were mostly found in the A-bodies - but I am unclear on which (if any) Regals or Cutlasses could receive these. Keep in mind that the 1973 Lemans was the basis for that year's GTO. I have 1972 and 1973 "Accessorizers"; Both of these show that the 6 cylinder and 350 came standard with the Saginaw, while the 'M13' was available with the 350 & 400 in everything except the station wagon. It also says that the 'M13' was included with the GTO & GT options. Can I ask if this is an "A" or "B" gear set? I understand that normally the floor shifted Muncie three speeds were "B" gear sets, but I have read that some "A" gear set transmissions may have been assembled with a tail housing for a floor shifter... but info on these transmissions is rather spotty.
__________________
1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Importsmasher
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
yes, it's an assembly ID code;
but it's not as clear and easy to find as the partial vin code you posted; this is a six alpha-numeric code, stamped on a section of the flat machined surface made for the side cover; its on the bottom, rear - if you're looking at the side cover, it should be just below the bottom right corner bolt for the side cover. An example is: M9T29A The first character I believe* determines if it was a truck or car install; M = Truck-Muncie three speed H = Car-Muncie three speed The second character is the final digit in the model year. The third character is the month (in this case T = December). The fourth and fifth are the date of the month. The last is the gear set code. * = I have written down every Muncie three speed assembly code I have come across, and so far, all that start with an 'H' also end with a 'B' (and all 'M' also end with an 'A'). But I have read that the muncie three speed may have been used on a full sized car with the 'A' gear set... I am not sure if that was a trust-worthy source though.
__________________
1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
They dropped manual transmissions in big cars in early 1971, so if the OP's transmission has a 1973 date code it's not one of those.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Stuart For This Useful Post: | ||
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
On that note, does anyone have or know where to get a front bearing retainer? Apparently it's only for the Muncie 3 speed.... Thanks, Importsmasher
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
How in the world did you break the front bearing retainer?
You could call up THESE guys, they have a shelf full of SM330 parts - they may have a car front bearing retainer for you. I bought one several years ago for what was then my spare 'A' gear set transmission, so i could part with it... If you are able to turn down a truck one, I'd prefer to part with that one. Car front bearing retainer installed: Truck front bearing retainer installed: I found the casted part numbers too hard to make out - which is why I never gave them in my own "wanted" thread HERE. Here is the machined face of the truck bearing retainer: You can see that there IS enough meat to machine it down...
__________________
1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I don't have any way to turn down a truck one; do you have any car ones for sale? If so, how much shipped to 38375? Thanks, Importsmasher
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Did you try calling the company in Washington state that I linked in the quoted post?
I am in Canada, and odds are (unless you are willing to wait a couple months till I am able to mail while state-side) shipping will kill it...
__________________
1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
A-HA!!!
I dug further (again to try to help you) to find that this shop (Garage Motorsports) has one listed on eBay right now!! LINK Snap it up - eBay shipping is typically much cheaper than a shipping for a person to person transaction. Not to mention, that bearing retainer (to me) is CHEAP!
__________________
1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Importsmasher
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
#18
|
||||
|
||||
make sure there's a pilot busing in the crank;
I seem to recall reading that breakages like this are often attributed to a missing or worn pilot bushing. For future reference, look those guys up - they seem to be the go-to guys for parts for these transmissions (but they do not!?! list any of it on their web page).
__________________
1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Importsmasher
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
Got the new bearing retainer today! Thanks for the help, unruhjonny!
__________________
Scott Baggiore 66 GTO convertible 389/4 speed (parents bought new) 73 Firebird Formula 400/4 speed 74 GTO 455/4 speed 74 Grand Am |
Reply |
|
|