[Steve C.]

We have another situation that has cropped with our IA II block (blk #17), this one deals with the link bar on my solid roller lifters making contact with the lifter bore pad on the block.
It happens when the roller is on the base circle of the cam.

These lifters previously worked fine in my factory 400 block. They are Crower Hi-seat offset roller lifters (0.200 pushrod offset). They are a custom lifter, part number 66299, and are basicly the same as Hi-seat p/n 66275 for the small block Chevy except for the lift bar and oiling. The a Hi-seat design allows for a shorter 7.900 pushrod length. Plus they are being used in conjunction with 0.170 offset rocker arms on a shaft system.

Prior to these piticular lifters we used Isky 0.150 offset small block Chevy lifters part number 1241-LO-150 with the tie bar set up for the Pontiac. These lifters also worked in my factory 400 block but their lift bar also makes contact with the IA II block.

To check the situation we tried regular Crower PONTIAC solid roller lifters part number 66260, these are standard with no offset. These barely cleared the block.

Thinking there might be a issue with the incorrect base circle on the cam we pulled it out and tried a previousy used Ultradyne solid roller. Same situation, the tie bars hit the block. In fact on the second cam the base circle was about 0.010 smaller than the first and with this second cam the standard Pontiac solid roller lifters will now hit the block.

At this point I didn't want to make any changes in parts .... the lifters were $525 and the short pushrods were another $230. So we machined a groove in the lifter bore pads on the block to let the tie bars clear. With a 0.070 deep groove the tie bars did not clear, the final cut ended up at 0.100 deep.

Bummer.... just more additional expense pased on to me. Plus I have one pissed off machiniest with this and other time consuming issues he has had to deal with on the block.

With this all happening I'd like to hear from others as to what brand solid roller lifters they have used on their IA II block and if they have incountered a similar situation.

[Steve C.]

We have another situation that has cropped with our IA II block (blk #17), this one deals with the link bar on my solid roller lifters making contact with the lifter bore pad on the block.
It happens when the roller is on the base circle of the cam.

These lifters previously worked fine in my factory 400 block. They are Crower Hi-seat offset roller lifters (0.200 pushrod offset). They are a custom lifter, part number 66299, and are basicly the same as Hi-seat p/n 66275 for the small block Chevy except for the lift bar and oiling. The a Hi-seat design allows for a shorter 7.900 pushrod length. Plus they are being used in conjunction with 0.170 offset rocker arms on a shaft system.

Prior to these piticular lifters we used Isky 0.150 offset small block Chevy lifters part number 1241-LO-150 with the tie bar set up for the Pontiac. These lifters also worked in my factory 400 block but their lift bar also makes contact with the IA II block.

To check the situation we tried regular Crower PONTIAC solid roller lifters part number 66260, these are standard with no offset. These barely cleared the block.

Thinking there might be a issue with the incorrect base circle on the cam we pulled it out and tried a previousy used Ultradyne solid roller. Same situation, the tie bars hit the block. In fact on the second cam the base circle was about 0.010 smaller than the first and with this second cam the standard Pontiac solid roller lifters will now hit the block.

At this point I didn't want to make any changes in parts .... the lifters were $525 and the short pushrods were another $230. So we machined a groove in the lifter bore pads on the block to let the tie bars clear. With a 0.070 deep groove the tie bars did not clear, the final cut ended up at 0.100 deep.

Bummer.... just more additional expense pased on to me. Plus I have one pissed off machiniest with this and other time consuming issues he has had to deal with on the block.

With this all happening I'd like to hear from others as to what brand solid roller lifters they have used on their IA II block and if they have incountered a similar situation.

[Rob]

Unfortunately I haven't done any of the new IAII blocks, but did have to clearance for link bars on all five of the first IAI blocks using comp cams lifters.

Really the price you pay to run big lift, small base cirlce provides the bigger lobe.

Another argument for going straight to roller cam bearings.

You'd curse a lot more if you found the bad distributor to oil pump retainer casting drilled wrong minutes into primming the oil pump before a dyno session.(early IA 1 blocks)

-Rob

[Brian Baker]

It happened with me on my FACTORY 455 BLOCK. It's all part of the game when running a roller cam, and likely expected even more when dealing with a bulkier casting than what the factory offered.

[Jeff V]

Steve,I would call Bob at AllPontiac and see if he has some answers.Bob and Frank are straight up guys and if you have any issues I'm sure they could help you out.

[J.C.you]

that is the reason i did not get the tall lifters for my IA rebuild. extra machine work cost bucs and is better spent on go faster stuff. trouble is the short lifters are backordered!
butler tried to sell me the tall lifters, but he did tell me the block would have to be machined if i used them. if u don't have mega spring pressure the short lifters and longer pushrods will be fine.

[Ray Cox]

I have test fitted two sets now on IA2 blocks with no issues, But if your building motors like these there will always be clearance issues with somthing . there is no one part that will fit everybodys aplication with every part senario. its too bad you have to machine yours, but I for one am glad the lifter bores are built as strong as they are I would rather bob and frank leave extra material in places we might need to take it out, than to make it weaker by leaving it out to begin with. SOME PEOPLE NEED THE EXTRA material for strength

[Ray Cox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J.C.you:
that is the reason i did not get the tall lifters for my IA rebuild. extra machine work cost bucs and is better spent on go faster stuff. trouble is the short lifters are backordered!
butler tried to sell me the tall lifters, but he did tell me the block would have to be machined if i used them. if u don't have mega spring pressure the short lifters and longer pushrods will be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I gusess Bob And Frank will need to Build Lifter next

[Robert C.]

quote]Isky 0.150 offset small block Chevy lifter[/quote]



I have talk to Steve in length about this. If he would have used Isky Big Block Chevy Lifter with a .300 taller location lift bar he would not have this problem. But Steve wanted to use his used lifters and cam on this build to save money. Most of this is engine prepping is (engine prep 101) that finds problem like this.



The lifter boss is raised to make use of the cheaper and better lifters that are out there. The block is designed to use stock lifters too and it is the builder’s choice of an aftermarket product. In doing so you the builder may have to change the design of a product to make their choice of that aftermarket part work. We can not be held to making every aftermarket part fit every block. The block does have more metal in places to beef up the lifter valley and there at times when a builder may need to grind a little here and there to make parts fit. It could be that Isky is not the best choice of lifter to suite this application. This has not been a problem on any other build that I know about.

Steve has been great in keeping me informed daily on ever part of his build. I feel that I am there with him. Steve and I and Bill Ceralli have been on the phone comparing notes. Most engine builders out there expect to do a little grinding here and there. Steve has maybe had a little more then normal. We have offered Steve many times compensation for his builders extra time and he was kind enough to turn it down. With Steve’s help we will have a things to do list for everybody to check a see what may need to be done to his or her block. Steve is a great guy to give us his valuable time to helping everyone understand that building a motor may be a bit more then just bolting parts on a motor. .



That part of racing.



Steve I will be in New York City Thursday thru Sunday, feel free to call my cell.

[Steve C.]

Never assume anything.... that's why we test fit. And why the book says "blueprinting" is without question the most used -and most abused- term in engine building.

We had no knowlege going in about a preferance to a BBC lifter with a 0.300 taller location link bar. Or I missed it in the "assembly manual"
For me not using $755 worth of parts that had only a few passes on them in the previous combination where they worked great was a big factor. But I was really surprised to find that a standard Crower solid roller lifter, probably one of the most commonly used, best and popular solid lifters out there has potential issues in the block.

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J.C.you:
that is the reason i did not get the tall lifters for my IA rebuild. extra machine work cost bucs and is better spent on go faster stuff. trouble is the short lifters are backordered!
butler tried to sell me the tall lifters, but he did tell me the block would have to be machined if i used them. if u don't have mega spring pressure the short lifters and longer pushrods will be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How will using taller lifters require more machine work? Besides shortening the pushrod, the whole point of the taller lifter is to keep the retainer/bars off the lifter bore wall of the block. You sure Butler didn't mean you'd have to machine the block with the short ones?

[Ray Cox]

I Have two sets of crowers, both sets were in the block this week for test fit no issues, as for using parts you already have, everyone wants too, I just sold a set of BME rods with 10-15 passes on them for 1/2 price when I bought a new block, because I needed another .010 These are custom built Motors not some stock rebuild that means custom parts if you want to order parts that slip in and come from JC Penneys build a chevy!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Ray? The dude had a set of $575 lifters with is Nitrous cam that are in great hardly used shape from his previous engine.
Not a being cheap deal. Or why would he even buy a $2995.00 block plus the $107.00 metal surcharge gimic. LOL.
He only changed blocks to play it safe with a stronger better built block. It wasn't a new fresh start from scratch deal.

Would you want to throw away a set of lifters that worked in previous Pontiac blocks after you already had the short assembled and took it for granted that there wouldn't be an issue with something as simple as a Pontiac/Chevy offset lifter in a Pontiac block. I can understand.
Especially when there is currently only one company making a .200 offset. Crower.

So what do ya do?

All Offset roller lifters are Chevy based anyway.

[Ray Cox]

READ MY LIPS DUDE I JUST DID! I just sold the new BME rods I had for 500.00 and bought some .010 longer

DUDE IS ANYONE EVER RIGHT BUT YOU?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Depends on what they post.
LOL.

And where did you post them for sale at $500.00? Hummmmmmmmmm.
You replace a <span class="ev_code_RED">NEW</span> set of $950.00 rods because they were .010 too short?
And the reason?
You got to be kidding, right? Yea, your kidding that you paid new price again for a set of new rods again that were .010 longer. Right?
Tell me this isn't so.

[DiamondJim]

Steve, how much do you think the base circle size came into play? The last cam I had custon ground used a very small base circle. I am not sure what determines what size core used(larger lift=smaller core?) but the core size could explain some of the problem. What do you think? BTW, 750 bucks is a lot to me, sorry to hear of your problem.-Jim

[tom s]

Has anyone that is building a new motor looked at the new Schubeck Rollers?I had one in my hands last week.SUPER lite and no guide bars.Tom

[russ467]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tom s:
Has anyone that is building a new motor looked at the new Schubeck Rollers?I had one in my hands last week.SUPER lite and no guide bars.Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What keeps the roller inline with the ramp on the cam?

[Junkyard Dog]

Schubeck = no roller.

[Region Warrior]

Dont forget, the base circle on MOST radical cams makes quite a difference in how far the lifter drops down in the bore. I would much rather have the extra metal & modify as necessary.IMHO