[Jim Zeek]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff V:
I didn't drive to the Grove twice just to protest and go home again with nothing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeff: If you knew before you came back for the rainout that this is how the event was going to be run would you still have come up for it? I did not go to Maple Grove to protest anything. I went to race against Pontiacs. When I found out I would be running against anything that is when I left. I don't mind running against other makes or dragsters either. But when I do run against them it is for more than $600.00. How hard would it have been to run at least 2 Pontiac classes that day? It wouldn't have taken that much more time. And you basically are saying "I drove all this way so I might as well stay". I work hard for my money and don't feel like being stepped on when I spend it. As I said before, this is not a Pontiac only occurance. This happens at other venues too. The attitude there is if you don't like it go somewhere else. The old saying goes.... "if you don't like the way something is done, Do something about it" Well I am doing something about it....in Virginia!

[nasty66gto]

I talked to a couple of other racers some promod guys and funny cars and they said that maple grove is a mess @ there events also

why is it that we work so hard on our time money
relationships tested just to
race and the tracks are just making it harder for us to race??? between all the noise restrictions and the not caring of the employee's of the different tracks
it's like racing why bother at
all
I just got back from Island today

had a good time for a small track they are pretty nice people except the tech guy who everyone
has been complaining about including me we work hard just to be there we don't need to be talked down to like we never raced or worked on a car before this is some of the reasons people don't bother building cars to go racing as much just a few choice idiots like us who
take the aggrevation of everything from
neighbors
who hate ournoise to parts places who don't care if we get the right parts the first time or @ all
everyone should be proud of what we do
and the work it takes to do

this is just my rant
thanks for taking time to read

[Brian Baker]

Because, like Keefer said..."Bitchin' but racin'".

Also, tracks nowadays make more money on T&T days than any other. Take Capitol for instance. They charge $20 per car for a Friday night T&T. On a packed night, they may get 500 cars. An average night, 250. Plus they have additional money coming in from concession sales. When there is no purse, no track prep, and the only overhead is the cost of electricity to run the place and the "minimum wage" paid to employees...do the math. $10,000 on a packed night, and that doesn't even include spectator tickets or concession sales.

T&T days are a "cash cow" at most tracks, and as long as it stays that way, the treatment of the racers on a race day will not get better. Royce Miller at MIR is one of the few track owner/operators that I know of that actually gives a damn about the racers.

[Jeff V]

Just thought I would post that I received my certificate from David Butler today.Thank you to the Butler Performance Group for trying to make this race happen.I hope they won't be discouraged by all of the negative comments toward the Grove.It was meant to be a great race,but just fell way short this year for many Pontiac racers and fans.

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff V:
just fell way short this year <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


dude you gotta get your head out of your ass.If you read the posts and actually listen to what everybody is saying. Prehaps you would get a clue.It has nothing to do with the treatment THIS year. It is the treatment that racers (ALL racers not just pontiac racers) have received from George Case in the past.This years treatment was by far the last straw. Unlike your bitching bout trans brakes in mod. Our gripes are actually factual.As posted earlier It is all racers who get shafted repeatedly by that man. If you want to be george case's puppet by all means get out your knee pads.After all as long as money goes into your pocket what do you care who gets stepped on and screwed over in the process.

Like Pontiac Dude said if one person gets pissed off enough to never come back. SO WHAT. There will be 2 more to replace them. However if an entire community bands together and draws a line in the sand to NEVER return. It is a long shot but mabey just mabey some one in the Stauffer family will take notice and remove the jack a55 from his job

[Jeff V]

TA454
I guess you must be Jim Zeek's brother,cause I heard he had a brother who wanted to race at VMP but couldn't due to a transbrake.You could have raced VMP in Top ET,right?The real reason you couldn't race is you run a Chevy engine.Why do you have a Pontiac with a Chevy engine?Get a Camaro and run the Super Chevy events like you should.You have no input on this board with your Chevy powered P.O.S.If you don't like racing at the Grove,don't go back.Very simple.Racers like you just want to be catered to,and complain when things aren't done your way.Just shut up and race.

[nasty66gto]

Who is the real owner of Maplegrove?

[Brian Baker]

Jeff, TA454 is right about this year being "the last straw". I'm happy for you for winning some money, but in my opinion, you were cheated out of money. The classes were combined, but the purses weren't, plain and simple. $600 take home is a nice little chunk, but when you consider the Pontiac class you WOULD HAVE run in was paying $400 to win, what does that say about the purse to win in the Nostalgia class? It would have only paid $200 to win? I think not. Somewhere there is between $200-$400 in prize money missing that YOU should have been paid, but if you're ok with $600, so be it.

The runner up and semi-finalist in the Pontiac class you would have run in were to be paid $300 and $100 respectively. What did the Nostalgia-1 R/U get paid? The semi-finalist didn't get paid anything, where'd that $100 of Pontiac money go since the classes were combined?

George Case fleeced the racers AND the sponsors on this deal, you just can't see it because you drove home with some money in your pocket.

[fast72lemans]

No need to bash anyone who had a good time, as many have said and IMO, M/g SUCKS!!! If Jeff had a great day, good for him. Next year when he's racing by himself, the win will not mean much, the money may be the same if the sponsors continue. I personaly will be racing in the Renegade Race if at all possible and will not spend my money at a track who couldn't care less if you come back. I hope the ricers keep them open!!!!!

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff V:
TA454
I guess you must be Jim Zeek's brother,cause I heard he had a brother who wanted to race at VMP but couldn't due to a transbrake.You could have raced VMP in Top ET,right?The real reason you couldn't race is you run a Chevy engine.Why do you have a Pontiac with a Chevy engine?Get a Camaro and run the Super Chevy events like you should.You have no input on this board with your Chevy powered P.O.S.If you don't like racing at the Grove,don't go back.Very simple.Racers like you just want to be catered to,and complain when things aren't done your way.Just shut up and race. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jack ass
I did race at VMP.
I do have a transbrake.
I did race in MOD.
I do run at super chevy.
I have even run super chevy at VMP,and the grove ,and norwalk,and new england dragway.
In fact i was at VMP 2 yrs before the pontiac race was even thought of. I liked the facility and staff enough to even post on this very board bout the track. Guess what i probably mentioned to my brother once or twice thast it would be a nice place for an event. I know there are others that i told also.
It is RACERS like you that piss the rest of us off. Whining bout trans brakes in cars and insisting that they have gotta be removed from the car. Some of us actually have morals enought to not use them when the rules dont allow. The fact that you dont trust other racers just proves that you are not trustworthy.

As far as racers like me. I dont consider myself a serious racer. I am a hobbiest that likes to go fast and hang out with like minded people. Racing is golf that is it it is a hobby!

The fact that I have a chevy has nothing to do with racing or not. In fact you must be stupid if you think that was an ever an issue. The type of engine was never stipulated for VMP except for the Q16.

It is not about the money. It was never about the money. It is about the treatment that we receive. We go to these events to relax with freinds not to get ***** on. In a large part these events would still draw a contestants even with out a purse. The show at island and even Englishtown are proof of that.
True E-town has fallen due to noise restrictions but with out the restrictions even the faster cars like Jim and Scott Rex used to show up. There was never a purse there just trophys. People (pontiac people) go to these events to be with freinds and contest freindly rivalrys.
How can you say I want to be catered to with your ignorant attitude. you are the plick that whined bout bud lyons, myself ,and others having brakes.Why do we have brakes because they are FUN as a motherf#@*er.
Like I said before GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A$$ AND GET A CLUE.
P.S.
Chevy powered pos.
Whats a matter jethro cant think up anything original. Thats why you freaken rednecks lost the war.
OH Thats right some of YOU retards are still fightin it.

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nasty66:
Who is the real owner of Maplegrove? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tony,
The owners of the grove are the Stauffer family

[Fish]

[pchris]

LOL@FishStang....

I was looking for that little pic in some of your other posts to copy it here, ya beat me to it:P

[bmpmdf]

t/a454, I can get a Pontiac powered chevy to dust your wannabe camaro.

[Paul Spotts]

I talked to David Butler today (great guy) I let him know about the Renegade event so they don't sponsor an event with only a few Pontiacs at it. We will be keeping in touch and may even join forces. The Butlers took care of the people who went rounds with gift certificates - just looks like the track is responsible for the semi payouts and bracket 3 money.

I also talked to C-cass at PY and they are not supporting the MG event next year. MG even screwed PY as well.

[Brian Baker]

Well, the MG event is almost always the last weekend in July (or next to last)...so plan accordingly.

[Jeff V]

...posted by TA454...
It is RACERS like you that piss the rest of us off. Whining bout trans brakes in cars and insisting that they have gotta be removed from the car. Some of us actually have morals enought to not use them when the rules dont allow. The fact that you dont trust other racers just proves that you are not trustworthy.

---When did I ever whine about transbrakes in Mod class?I mentioned to Jim that it is a RULE down here in The South,that's it.

As far as racers like me. I dont consider myself a serious racer. I am a hobbiest that likes to go fast and hang out with like minded people. Racing is golf that is it it is a hobby!

---That's good because you obviously suck at being a racer.

It is not about the money. It was never about the money. It is about the treatment that we receive. We go to these events to relax with freinds not to get ***** on.

---If you just go to hang with friends,then why worry about what other cars are there?

How can you say I want to be catered to with your ignorant attitude. you are the plick that whined bout bud lyons, myself ,and others having brakes.Why do we have brakes because they are FUN as a motherf#@*er.
Like I said before GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A$$ AND GET A CLUE.

---Again,when did I whine about brakes?

Whats a matter jethro cant think up anything original. Thats why you freaken rednecks lost the war.
OH Thats right some of YOU retards are still fightin it.[/QUOTE]

---You know,the more I think about it,you are so smart.I wish I could be just like you.I wish I could say things about all Northerners based on what I see in your posts.No wonder we SOUTHERN boys won all the Pontiac races this year.

[nasty66gto]

hey how many more pages can this go for we're almost done the 6th

[Jagtec1]

Trying to get to 7....

I think the banter is good. It gets everyone thinking about why they WON"T be going back MG next year.

[fast72lemans]