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#41
11-01-2005, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
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Badder than old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog -Jim Croce |
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#42
11-01-2005, 11:34 AM
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2.87 first gear with a 3.55 rear end is 10.1 overall ratio. That is like running a Muncie M22 with a 4.63 rear gear!
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Badder than old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog -Jim Croce |
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#43
11-01-2005, 11:41 AM
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Madman! With the .64 overdrive, however, this is like running a 2.75 gear on the interstate. (4.3 x .64 = 2.752) Overdrives sure are nice. With a 275/60 R15 tire, that would be a mere 2,314 rpm at 70 while cruising, according to Classic Chevy 5 Speed's rpm calculator.
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Badder than old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog -Jim Croce |
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#44
11-01-2005, 01:07 PM
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3:55
I had 4:33 posi in mine the first year. The second year I had the car we put 3:55 gears. The 433 was a blast for acceleration but misery on the hiway. The 355's kind of give me a compromoise for city/hiway.But then again when I go to car shows with my buddies (average of 600 miles round trip or the occasional 1200 mile trip), the convoy consists of driven concourse cars ranging from 1940 to 1959 so we rarely hit 65 miles/hr. usually cruise at the speed limit. I enjoy the trip there and back, breakfast, lunch etc.. yep I get buzzed by newer cars, ricers etc.... on such trips but it does not bother me. This is how this car was built in the sixties.
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#45
11-01-2005, 02:05 PM
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I really think your engine combo and driving habits dictate your choice of gears.I wanted a trans that would be good for some drag racing and would be OK on the street.So far my choice has been pretty good.The only rub is the too low of first gear with the reargear needed for racing.The TKO600 will address that isssue I believe.I STILL like the 4.56s for the racing aspect.Tom
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#46
11-01-2005, 03:11 PM
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How much do these 5 speeds cost? From GearZone you can get a brand new muncie M22 with gear ratios of 2.20, 1.51, 1.17 and 1.00 along with 26/32 splines for under two bills.
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"We in government should learn to look at our country with the eyes of the entrepenuer, seeing possibilities where others see only problems" -Ronald Reagan |
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#47
11-01-2005, 03:41 PM
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Robert,IMO a 2.20 first gear for a pontiac is all but useless.With a large cam and anything but 4.10 or lower gears sucks.Bin there done that.They also make wide ratios M22s now.Also you will not have a OD.The advantage is you can have a trans-reargear combo you can race and also drive on the freeway.The original post which was got away from was the streetablity of 3.55s which I think is OK as I have them in a couple cars.The TKO with 4.56s in the back and OD gear gives you 3.08s in 5th.I got a quote a couple weeks ago for $1700 for a TKO600.Trans only as having a 500 now,that is all I need.Tom
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#48
11-01-2005, 04:16 PM
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what does my 308 with 15" 50 series tires come out to...? i seem to have enough to play on the freeway with the 5th gear guys...
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'74 formula 400, w/shaker (3 scoops) black deluxe interior, '70 406 balanced assembly, .30 trw slugs, moly rings, 4x heads 2.11/1.77 stainless valves, ra 4 cam, e-rpm intake, holley 750 vac. sec, msd hei, hooker headers w/ dual 3'' flowmaster 50 series ending at axle, t400 w/ GM6 convertor, transgo shift kit, b&m starshifter, 3.08 gears, centerlines, 265/50-15 bfg's rear and 235/60-15 front...yes im over cammed but it is still very fun... |
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#49
11-01-2005, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
__________________
"We in government should learn to look at our country with the eyes of the entrepenuer, seeing possibilities where others see only problems" -Ronald Reagan |
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#50
11-01-2005, 06:06 PM
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Robert, I think he's saying with an OD 5th gear ratio of approx .64 to 1, then the 4.56 rear gears convert to approx 3.08s
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REDGOAT 70 1970 GTO 400/350 TH400 |
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#51
11-01-2005, 06:45 PM
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EXACTLY what I was trying to relate.Thanks,Tom
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#52
11-01-2005, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Badder than old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog -Jim Croce |
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#53
11-01-2005, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Really depends on engine combo. My 66 GTO came with a 455, 96 heads, and a 744 cam. It had a 2.2 ratio first gear, and a 3.55 rear gear. It would light up the tires while driving in first or second without touching the clutch. Just roll into the throttle and the tires would start screaming. Indeed, first gear was useless for anything but squealing tires. Maybe it would be different at the track, but this is the street section. Tom, you really have me wanting a Tremec for the new engine combo, though.
__________________
Badder than old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog -Jim Croce |
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#54
11-01-2005, 08:20 PM
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OK Question
What were the lowest and highest gears Pontiac ever put behind its traditional engines?
My guess is 2.41 and 4.33. Am I right? The Tremec TKO600 with a 3.55 gear mimics a Muncie/4.63 gear combo in first. The Tremec with a 3.55 gear mimics a Muncie/2.27 gear combo in overdrive. Both higher and lower than anything Pontiac put in. 3.73 Gear with the Tremec would be like a 4.86 and a 2.38 rear gear in first and overdrive. 4.10 Gear with the Tremec would be like a 5.34 and a 2.62 rear gear in first and overdrive. (but one might start running out of rpm at the end of the track?) 4.33 Gear with the Tremec would be like a 5.64 and a 2.77 rear gear in first and overdrive. 4.56 Gear with the Tremec would be like a 5.94 and a 2.91 rear gear in first and overdrive. Hard to believe you won't run out of rpm in the quarter mile with a 4.56 gear. Are you running a 455? Your car must be a lot of fun on the starting line!
__________________
Badder than old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog -Jim Croce |
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#55
11-01-2005, 09:24 PM
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running a 421 60 over,leave at 6000,shift at or ABOUT 6200.Things happen REAL fast in first.Thats what hurts my 60 ft as I get virtually no pull before I need to shift.I did not have a 4.30 avail when I built the car and the only 1st gear at that time was the 3.27.Did try a 4.10 and the 56 ran the best.The motor has a bathtub tunnel ram with a pair of 750s.The 4.10s were not good for me on the street as I could not use 5th gear in most of my driving conditions.The 56s with a 30in tire would be perfect IMO.Tom
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#56
11-01-2005, 09:29 PM
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the 455 with the little cam allows the 2.20 with the 3.55s.I hated the 2.20 with a set of 3.64s but my cam was a lot bigger and the engine was a 421.The car ran fine after I slipped the clutch to keep from stalling.The factory usually would not put the 2.20 with anything higher than a 3.90.Tom
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#57
11-01-2005, 09:34 PM
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I really don't understand people having problems with say 3.55's on the highway, especially in a 400. 3000rpm at cruising speed is average to low for most modern (4 cyl) cars, the difference is they have decent sound insulation and/or quiet exhausts. If 3000rpm on the highway bugs you, try some quieter mufflers. A lot cheaper than a rear end swap and no loss of acceleration.
A good friend of mine has a 455 powered lemans with 3.31 gears and a th350, 80mph cruising is not a problem and he is going over 3000rpm. He's made the 8 hour trip to Norwalk 3 times. 3.31's would be even less a big deal in a 400, but 3.55's would give around the same effective piston speed etc. Fwiw, my '78 t/a has 3.23's and a 400/4 speed, I get 20mpg highway mileage and if I were not into road racing vs. drag racing, I wouldn't hesitate to go with 3.73's. |
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#58
11-01-2005, 10:08 PM
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Bobz, I guess my biggest complaint is not noise, it is that at 3200/65, it feels like I'm dragging an anchor on a rope tied to the rear bumper, like it's trying to keep me from moving forward . . . .
like the guys said above, I have this continuing urge to shift one more gear higher . . . . . . except there isn't one . . . . and if I want to go 80, I'm at 4000 too many rpm . . . . . . .
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REDGOAT 70 1970 GTO 400/350 TH400 |
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#59
11-01-2005, 10:15 PM
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Question...my car currently has a muncie in it. How much will it cost after it is all set and done approximately? I ask this because on the classic 5 speed Chevy website it has a deluxe kit which says "A popular option for 4-speed to 5-speed conversions" and this costs in the $2500 range. Their elite kit says "A popular option for automatic to 5-speed conversions" but it includes new clutches, flywheel etc. and it costs in the $3600+ range.
http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/68..._Selection.htm
__________________
"We in government should learn to look at our country with the eyes of the entrepenuer, seeing possibilities where others see only problems" -Ronald Reagan |
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#60
11-01-2005, 10:42 PM
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Minimum you need a clutch disc with 26 splines, $50. You will need the kit, $2500. If you are using a console you'll need the offset shifter, $300. You'll need some time and some metal fabrication skills. Otherwise you'll need some more $. You'll probably need new carpet because the tunnel will be a little biger in the end and the carpet might not reach. $100 So probably $3000 by the time its all said and done.
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