[wkreek]

I have a 1969 firebird convertible that has a 3 speed floor shifted trans. It is a ford toploader, and I am having a problem getting parts for it. Anyone know anything about these? I haven't run the PHS on the car, but I am pretty sure it is original equipment. (the motor is Not an HO )??

[steveK]

I also have a 69 FB convertible with the floor mounted Hurst shifter. It is a HD 3-speed which is a Ford Dearborn transmission not sure if this is the same as your "Top Loader". My tranny was a factory option as opposed to the cars standard Muncie 3 speed and costed 93.61 more. For 106.51, you could get a 4-speed Muncie M-20, with my cars package, but I never know why the original owner opted for the HD-3 speed Dearborn rather than spend $10 more for the 4-speed M20. The PHS is what will confirm the type of tranny you should have and well worth the $35 investment.

[Cammer-6]

Insurance was the name of the game.
If it came with a 4 speed it was surcharged and tagged as a muscle car.
This was one of the big reasons the muscle cars died...insurance.
I have a 68 Firebird 350 2 bbl that came with the dearborn.
Not sure why because standard trans was a saggy and I dont remember this car having that option.
Trans is long gone as is everything except the shell.I pulled the drivetrain out in favor of something spicier in 1970. I know I still have the Hurst shifter and maybe the driveshaft.
Have you checked with the Mudstain guys,it (choke) used the same tranny,minus a few changes.

[wkreek]

I thought I had, but I will Look again. I ordered the parts I thought I needed from David Kee Toploaders (great people, and company) but only some of them worked. I think today I will go to my local Auto parts store, and try to get the front seal.

[Z_Firebird]

http://www.drivetrain.com/

its officially called a Tremec 3 speed.
Haven't rebuilt mine yet, but when I searhced for parts this is what I found.

[wkreek]

Thanks Z, I'll call them tomorrow. I was just about to put it back together with one of the used bearings.

[steveK]

Just for clarification, is the Dearborn HD-3speed tranny same as top-loader or Tremec? thanks

[wkreek]

Dearborn HD 3 speed = Tremec 160T 3 speed= Ford RAT 3 speed. These were used on many different Makes, and years.There are differences, like the input shaft and seal are NOT the same as the Ford. (Now I have 2 extra Ford sized seals). I think they were used on GTO's too.

[cuz68]

Not on any gtos that i knoww of.

[wkreek]

Another Pontiac Mystery?

http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/stats...all&f1=dttrans

[Z_Firebird]

It's my understanding that GTOs used the same Ford 3sp.
Muncie didn't have a heavy duty 3 speed, so the low horsepower engines used Muncies, while the 300+ HP engines used Fords.
I had always wondered if this was the same 3 speed that Mustangs used, which would make it easier to explain to rebuilders and parts houses, but wkreek answered that question- it is not.
Nice to know I'm not the only one out there with this tranny. Call me crazy, but I am strongly considering taking out my Muncie 4 speed and putting back the original Ford. Its an interesting piece of automotive history.

[wkreek]

My car is a 350 265 HP, and it drives great.

[wkreek]

I just got my PHS documents, and the Heavy duty 3 speed was ordered as an option on my car, so it is original.

[rknrl69]

I know this is a firebird thread but I saw the 3sp and had to read. My 65 2+2 has the original 3sp and it is the top loader. Standard equipment with the 421
patrick
ps nice to know there are other 3sp out there. What color is you shifter knob? mine is white. I have yet to see another one.

[wkreek]

The more I learn about my 3 speed, the more I like it. Everyone has a 4 speed, but I think only a few HD 3 speeds. My shifter knob is black, as is my interior. Is your interior white?

[wkreek]

Thanks Z Firebird,I got the parts to rebuild my 3 speed at www.drivetrain.com. They also were not familiar with the pontiac 3 speed, but I took a chance and ordered a rebuild kit for a Ford RAT 3 speed trans.The only part that was incorrect is the front input shaft seal. I was able to get that at my local auto parts store.

[Jack Gifford]

If you had spectated with me at the '61 Indy drag nationals, you'd have yet another reason to run the 3-speed. I have an indelible mental image of Hayden Proffitt launching his [or Mickey's?] aluminum-front-end 421 Catalina with the H-D 3-speed. Awesome!

Oops- No 421 in 1961! So much for my keen memory...

[Kurt S]

This is interesting.
Muncie designed a HD 3 speed for 69 (used thru 72), the MC1. It was a replacement for the B-W T16 HD 3 speed (RPO M13) used from 65-68.

It was used in 69 Camaros in the higher hp applications. But not a ton got made. For the few bucks more, everyone ordered the 4 speed (the exception is the SS350, where the MC1 was the free base trans).

So a HD 3 speed was available, but there had to be some politics to use a non-GM trans in the Firebirds.

[wkreek]

Well, Here it is, rebuilt and ready to go.

[blue69bird]

My 69 265hp 350 has the HD 3 speed.