[GTOLou]

Went to 1/8 mile track - my second track visit w/ my 69 gto convert. Was pretty cool, a bunch of folks where I work had pitted me against a buddy who has a blown 2005 mustang gt. I took two out of three against him (neither of us know what we're doing).


My first visit 6 weeks ago - 474, ported iron heads, CCams HR 288 and RA 2.5 inch manifolds. 60's were 1.95 range, speeds 84-85 mph, about 8.5 seconds or so. (My first ever - so my technique was questionable, not that it's any better now). It is a four speed car. Only thing then not stock about suspension are tubular lower control arms in back. (tires are Nitto, DR's 275/60/15 - 12 bolt, 3.42 gears, Autogear M22 - w/ wide ratio gearing - tire pressure 31, much lower makes wheel hop worse).


Visit two days ago - same 474, 310cfm KRE's and 1 7/8 headers w/ 3" full exhaust. TERRIBLE traction problems. Only sub-two second 60 time was 1.96 at 89mph and 8.06 seconds. On another run, I hit 89.6 mph, but 60 times were above 2 seconds and time was a little slower. My last run (only time he beat me - I fishtailed through the 60 foot for 2.2 seconds, my wife wasn't happy watching that - she thinks I won anyway. Incredibly, even w/ his blower and high rpm motor, I was noticibly catching him at the line - once I had traction). Only suspension change was adding Summit drag shocks to the front, set medium (80/20). I can't tell any difference w/ them.


Advice/Plans:

1) I guess I can change the front to 90/10 and unhook my sway bar (I don't really want to, I drive it almost an hour to get to the track, something I am a little proud of) and then re-attach for the drive home.

2) Add Summit rear drag shocks (are their shocks any good?).

3) I am strongly considering the anti-hop edelbrock bars and boxed/adjustable upper control arms (my first burnout both nights went well, but all burnouts after that had moderate wheel hop).

4) I've got a 1" rear sway bar - I've read about anti-roll bars - and about the lakeside and SSM deals that go on the lower CAs. I hope that #3) will give me what I need.


Car is a driver FIRST - but I want a little more squat and traction off the line.

[66bonne]

I know a lot of people that run the Nittos --- and a lot of people complain about the lack of traction from them. If it is in your plans try a set of the Mickey Thompson ET Street radials. Set the pressure at about 16-18psi when at the track. I'd bet you would see a significant improvement in your 60 foot times. I run them full time on my Catalina.
If you unhook your front sway bar you only have to do one side. My opinion is that you will not see an improvement in time/speed.
Try an air bag in your right rear coil spring set at about 8PSI. If you put one in the left coil set it at about 20. They are fairly cheap and help prevent chassis torque.
Sounds like you are having fun. Get that monster out of the hole and that Mustang will only see your tail lights. Keep us posted on your progress.
PS: Used to live in Columbia, SC and really enjoyed it. Can't wait for the POCI convention to come back to Greenville - that was the best convention ever.
Jim

[nhra stock GTO]

The front sway bar removal & loosining the upper a frame bolts is worth approx .07 on my 86 grand national . You will be able to feel the front lift a little. The new rear shocks should get rid of most of your wheel hop. I got my 60 foot down from 2.1 to 1.69with only the few changes 90 /10 shocks on the front new 50/50 shocks on the rear, removing front sway bar & adding poly ureathane bushings in my lower control arms.
this is from a completly stock chasis. Dont worry about the no hop uppers if you are mostly street , this will make an adjustable combo. Dont forget the sticky tires I use m&h dot street tires , they are very soft compound racing tires with tread. my g 60s are ony 8 inchs wide but they will bite, you also will need a line lock to heat your tires a little this pays off & dosent upset street manersa @ all


thx bill

[GTOLou]

Great stuff you guys - I very much appreciate the sage advice.


1) I do have urethane bushings all the way around. Front has stock upper/lower a-arms BUT with urethane bushings. I have a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 front sway bar w/ urethane bushings also - POINT taken about disconnecting it.


2) I will do the air bags - sounds like great advice.


3) Point taken about the M/T DR's - I bought the nitto's because they ARE harder and last longer on the street - but I guess I am paying for that decision now.


4) Also - will rethink the anti-hop bars.



Any ideas about switching the non-boxed upper rear CAs w/ boxed adjustables?? Seems like if wheel hop is still a problem after doing the easy stuff, that this would adjust the instant center enough to eliminate the wheel hop and help it dig in.

[02Hawk]

I took my 70 GTO from 2.00 60 fts to 1.80 60 foots by adding the no -hop bars. I bought them grom smmit and are still on the car and am running mid 10's in the quarter with sub 1.45 60 foots. They plant the rear end hard. Get rid of the nittos and go with a MT or Hoosier street slick.

[66bonne]

3) Point taken about the M/T DR's - I bought the nitto's because they ARE harder and last longer on the street - but I guess I am paying for that decision now.

GTOLou: The M/T DRAG radials are different from the STREET radials that I suggested.
Both are excellent for traction with the DRAG radial getting the upper hand. I like the STREET radials because you can drive them to the track, can't/shouldn't do that with the DRAG radials.

nhra stock GTO picked up some nice time by removing the front sway bar, more than I would expect. May have to give that another try.

[DiamondJim]

The very first thing I would do is either use the no-hops or SSM lowers to change the instant center(they both do the same thing), get rid of wheel hop, then you can lower pressure in the dr's and heat them up with a good burnout. Goodluck -Jim

[GTOLou]

Thanks 66 - I spend a ton of time in Cola, SC in the fall watching my gamecocks play FB!



Also, Hawk - what did you do about the stock (non-boxed) upper rear control arms w/ the anti-hop bar?

[DiamondJim]

One more thing Lou, be careful not to run a fuel line above the No-Hops, mine hit mt trunk pretty good on launch. You can box the stock uppers and lowers with a Mig(stich) and thick sheetmetal. Just adding the No-Hops will make a world of difference. I am not saying you will not want to do the other stuff, it is just IMHO they are the most bang for the buck. Out of all the things you listed they will make the most difference. -Jim

[BruceWilkie]

Double adjustable upper control arms(edelbrock or hotchkiss Jegs you have to remove an end to adjust but cheaper) to get precise pinion anle adjustments and Jegs or lakewood lift bars for the lower control arms. Slightly worn(not totally worn out) front shocks will get the job done especially with front sway bar disconnected. Adjustable anti roll bar out back and 50/50 shock. Your harder Nittos might be saving you from broken driveline parts(the hazard of racing a stick car) so play with tire pressures/burnout , launch rpm and suspension adjustments till no further gain before trying softer tire.

[issach428]

some encouragement, I went a best of 11.44 at 118 with that cam e-heads 316cfm in a 462 firebird 3800#. So once you hook you should be somewhere in the mid 11's

[66bonne]

GTO Lou - the best college football T shirt I ever owned was from the Gamecocks. It read
"You can't lick our Cocks". Couldn't believe they were selling it at the college book store.
With Spurrier as coach the 'Cocks will very soon be a real force in the SEC. The guy won an ACC football title at Duke !!!

[lust4speed]

Is your rear ride height close to stock? Wheel hop is caused by suspension loading and unloading. Soft bushings can be the culprit, but you have already replaced them with urethane. Next in line for causing wheel hop is screwing up the geometry by raising the rearend up for tire clearance. The no-hop bars are a fairly successful attempt to restore the corrrect angles and can mostly solve the hopping issue, but getting the rear back down will usually accomplish the same thing.

Quite a change in 6 weeks!

[68WarDog]

GTOlou how far are you from the Pageland track?That track hooks good.I have ran both my cars there. The 68( 400 8.7:1 c/r) @ 8.4 @ 76mph and the 70(455 11.8:1 c/r) @ 6.6 @ 102mph.Are you with the Palmetta Pontiac Club?There are alot of great guys in that club(Brian Cook for one) who would be glad to assist you in resolving your traction issues.

[GTOLou]

Thanks all - I am in Anderson, SC - 1/2 hour of so from the Georgia line.


My springs are stock height moogs from a couple of years ago. Shocks are Monroe's that I'm going to change to the Summit drags. Height is supposed to be stock. Wheel hop only showed up when I went to the larger tires (275/60 - nitto DRs). I think lowering the pressure makes the hop worse.


I want to do two things: get more bite off of the live is really first. Funny that my combo hooked up okay 6 weeks ago - but w/ more HP it doesn't hook as well (obviously). Even w/ my poor (first time out) techniqe 6 weeks ago ALL of my 60' times were better than now. The other thing is to get rid of the wheel hop - which isn't severe - but I'm sure has to be fixed to get more bite.

I got under the car last night - those pressed in upper urethane bushings are going to be a trick to get out w/ the housing still in the car... . A couple of hits w/ BFH didn't budge them.

[DiamondJim]

Lou, I have pulled (the bushings) before in the car with a piece of 1/2" threaded rod, rigid pipe coupling(for the bushings to pull into) and several large washers that just fit inside the opening. Run the rod thru a large washer, then the coupling, then the bushing. then crank it out with a deep well socket or open end wrench. Hope this makes sense. -Jim

[GTOLou]

DJ - thanks for the tip.