[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

"One more thing after reading the recall letter again I would like to see what the people defending them think about the recall letter. You best read it 5 times cause I`m sure in a good state of mind { not drunk, not stoned } how can one think that they are being fair and up front. " That's the $64,000 question that never seems to get answered.


Forgot mine on that list Brian.

I corrected it.

[johnta1]

Someone asked what this thread was about.

There is really only 1 answer:

* Business is suing customer for said verbal & internet complaints and wants the hearing in their state.

The rest is just obsfucation spread mostly by BB.
Nothing else pertains to the law suit.

Thankfully, a court of law doesn't fall for ad hominem facts like those spewed forth here.

The strawman keeps going.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Someone asked what this thread was about.

There is really only 1 answer:



The rest is just obsfucation spread mostly by BB.
Nothing else pertains to the law suit.

Thankfully, a court of law doesn't fall for ad hominem facts like those spewed forth here.

The strawman keeps going.

You mean "obfuscation", right?

You make two posts on here about how what some are posting is against the law, and point out how Cassperson may be held responsible for it, and then reference your point(s) to a law that only applies in the United Kingdom, and I'm obfuscating?

"ad hominem fact"? A fact that appeals to prejudice or feelings? Isn't that an oxymoron? A fact is a fact...how can it be prejudiced?

Who coached you on "obfuscate" and "ad hominem"? I know you didn't pull them out of your cranium.

Still waiting on an answer, John...where in the lemming hierarchy do Tom Vaught and Ken Keefer fall on your "ad hominem" website link? Which cheerleader represents you?

John Wallace's Pontiac Lemming board

[triathlonx13]

Somebody must have gotten a dictionary/thesaurus while out on bad behavior.

.

[Scott Roberts]

I know some big words too.............. refrigerator , locomotive, mayonnaise and a whole bunch more! I even know my gozin'tas..... 2 gozin'ta 4 2 times! Does that make me as smart as John?? Seems he knows some big words too.

[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by Chris Roach

In short –

• K&M produces an aftermarket block with quality issues.
• Some customers of block have experiencing questionable customer service.
• This horse has been beaten so brutally that all’s left is a crushed pile of bones.
• Some still think the horse will move.

Chris, that is hilarious. "some still think the horse will move".

[Brian Baker]

And now another interesting facet to the ongoing saga:

Legal Defense Fund

[Tom Vaught]

Brian, If John were to really give me some Chit, I would take back the NEW balancer that was replaced free of charge (shipping included) when the used one John owned was lost by the Blower people.

He sent me a USED piece and it was replaced with a new piece vs a similar swap meet special.

Course he COULD have gotten on the internet, called me every name in the book on every Pontiac site in the world, but he did not. He and I worked it out to HIS SATISFACTION AS THE INJURED PARTY. Something that did not happen in this block deal.

JMO

Tom V.

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Originally Posted by triathlonx13

Somebody must have gotten a dictionary/thesaurus while out on bad behavior.

.

What's another word for thesaurus ???

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Brian, If John were to really give me some Chit, I would take back the NEW balancer that was replaced free of charge (shipping included) when the used one John owned was lost by the Blower people.

He sent me a USED piece and it was replaced with a new piece vs a similar swap meet special.

Course he COULD have gotten on the internet, called me every name in the book on every Pontiac site in the world, but he did not. He and I worked it out to HIS SATISFACTION AS THE INJURED PARTY. Something that did not happen in this block deal.

JMO

Tom V.

Good to see good cust. service on your end Tom. Thought I might share a cust. satisfaction story as well.




Sold a cust a home generator. Total package job of $17,258 installed. Generator had many many problems over an 14 month period. All of the problems were repair under warrenty at no cost to the cust. but the generator did not give good service or sense of security. I jumped through many many hoops in order to do what the cust. wanted above and beyond the warrenty coverage. Finally the cust decided they wanted the generator replaced and rightfully so. I talked to the factory that made the unit and they didn't want to replace it, they just wanted to continue to repair problems until it ran out of warrenty. I now found myself in the middle but felt a sense of obligation to the cust. sense I was the one that recommended and sold them the unit.


I finally decide to just buy a new generator (cost $12,200) and install it (cost of $2680.00 in labor) all at no cost to the cust. The cust. was now made whole and I continued to fight with the factory over replacing the unit. I finally got staight with the factory on most of the costs. I lost about $6000.00 total on the job but the cust. was happy and the worst thing that can be said about us is there was a problem............................... but they fixed it. That same cust. is responsible for me selling $30,000.00+ worth of work in the end because I took care of them better than most anyone would have.

This little story is not to blow my own horn. Its to let you know I believe in not only talking the talk, but walking the walk as well. Some may say What I did was stupid but can sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing.

[Pontirag]

Stallion people are not giving you grief because you had a good experience with them or because you expressed it. its that you defend them in general when thier behavior is indefensable.

You did make what seemed to be a threatening statement back in post 78, you even apologized for it in post 88? Let's limit the disreputable behavior to the current group that is the focus of this thread. Otherwise it will be as I suspected censored or deleted. To protect the interest of....???? well PY anyway.

I think anybody who had the potential to become a victime also has the right to speak on this issue. Any body who was at all considering to buy a block and took the time to read the misleading add became a victim. Certainly less so than the people who got stuck with bad blocks , heads and service. But if you had the potential to be mis lead by the add even if you chose to not by one or to buy another vendors product you were a victim. There for anybody who read the add, was misled and is therefor a victim.

the victims include anybody who read the add as the add was misleading and mislead the reader. This is in addition to the victims who were further mislead enough to actually buy the block. And then there is the service after the sale. Victims there too.

Regardless whay a judge or jury determin. I express my opinion with my wallet and my key board. In the court of public opinion the verdict is already in. A court can only support the right to free speach or further discredit themselves in the eyes of the public.

STOP! THIEF!

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Drunk'nInjun

Good to see good cust. service on your end Tom. Thought I might share a cust. satisfaction story as well.




Sold a cust a home generator. Total package job of $17,258 installed. Generator had many many problems over an 14 month period. All of the problems were repair under warrenty at no cost to the cust. but the generator did not give good service or sense of security. I jumped through many many hoops in order to do what the cust. wanted above and beyond the warrenty coverage. Finally the cust decided they wanted the generator replaced and rightfully so. I talked to the factory that made the unit and they didn't want to replace it, they just wanted to continue to repair problems until it ran out of warrenty. I now found myself in the middle but felt a sense of obligation to the cust. sense I was the one that recommended and sold them the unit.


I finally decide to just buy a new generator (cost $12,200) and install it (cost of $2680.00 in labor) all at no cost to the cust. The cust. was now made whole and I continued to fight with the factory over replacing the unit. I finally got staight with the factory on most of the costs. I lost about $6000.00 total on the job but the cust. was happy and the worst thing that can be said about us is there was a problem............................... but they fixed it. That same cust. is responsible for me selling $30,000.00+ worth of work in the end because I took care of them better than most anyone would have.

This little story is not to blow my own horn. Its to let you know I believe in not only talking the talk, but walking the walk as well. Some may say What I did was stupid but can sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing.

Your efforts brought you $30K more in sales that you otherwise would not have gotten. What you lost on that one job, you made back and then some on the additional sales the customer brought you. It doesn't happen this way all of the time, but it happens more times than not.

[Pontirag]

thats essentially what this is really about. You stick with the customer trough out the debacle. you dont stick it to the customer. REKtum missed the boat on that one.KRE doesn't seem to get it. and it will cost them.

[Tom Vaught]

DI, You did good! "good cust. service" Now those are KEY words in any business transaction. As you mentioned, in the long run it all worked out.

I hope your other deal works out for you and the other customers too.

Funny how after all of these posting over the life of this topic, that was the first time I saw the "recall notice" up close.

I really do not believe that the Ohio group will have the same customer service as say Sears. You bring in a screw driver that you used as a chisel and they replace it, no questions asked. Same deal for any other tool I have ever had replaced. WARRANTY!!!!!!! CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!!!!!!!!

From what I have read to date they say you "tampered" with the block. Can you fill us in on what you had done, why it was done, and what the rational was for calling the mods "tampering" with the block? "Tampering" IS MY WORD.

Tom V.

[440GP69]

To be fair as well i have heard that their splayed blocks to this point are very nice blocks and i know someone who uses both IA2 and MR-1 and both seem to be the way to go for high HP apps, I am upset as i was about a week away from calling them and spending a lot of money on new CNC'd High Ports and was looking at the mr-1 for my future pontiac block, That was when i found this story and i was skeptical at first but not now!, i know they have brought out some really great pontiac parts and were a pillar in the pontiac comunity but if there is or was a possibilty that i would get the type of treatment and bad cust service That DI, Skip Fix or anyone else has got its not worth my hard earned money and time to be quite honest, the rewards do not outweigh the risk!

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

DI, You did good! "good cust. service" Now those are KEY words in any business transaction. As you mentioned, in the long run it all worked out.

I hope your other deal works out for you and the other customers too.

Funny how after all of these posting over the life of this topic, that was the first time I saw the "recall notice" up close.

I really do not believe that the Ohio group will have the same customer service as say Sears. You bring in a screw driver that you used as a chisel and they replace it, no questions asked. Same deal for any other tool I have ever had replaced. WARRANTY!!!!!!! CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!!!!!!!!

From what I have read to date they say you "tampered" with the block. Can you fill us in on what you had done, why it was done, and what the rational was for calling the mods "tampering" with the block? "Tampering" IS MY WORD.

Tom V.

Tom, The block was bored to 4.350, 1 hole was sleeved by CVM due to a complaint of pitting , I sent the block to Lewis Robinson one of the best around ... Lewis did quite a bit of r&d for Ford on I believe the 351, aswell as GM. Lewis was going to fit the bronze lifter bushings. He called me and sent up some red flags about the block. He fit the lifter bores "as best he could" as far has X & Y axis. Then cleaned the deck surface (bare min). So in short, I bored it, sleaved 1 hole, decked it, and rebushed the lifter bores. Keep in mind, NONE OF THESE WERE MY COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE BLOCK! It was only after Lewis raised some flags that my complaints were found. Brinell, cylinder wall thickness,and cam bore. If you read the suit it states I created or agents of mine created the defects I complained about. Is that possible in you opinion Tom??

[Pontirag]

That is essentially one of the core issues. and they dont get it. everybody knows that there are risks associated with the purchase of any product. even the best products have warrenties, why not because they are poorly made but because statistically there is always some probability that there will be a flaw.

Offering a warrenty is no indication of product quality. It IS an indication of service quality and vendor integrity.

If you make 250 engine blocks and only 5 are deffective thats pretty good quality control. But that means absolutly nothing to the customer. The customer is looking at one block and either 100% of that is good or 100% is bad. Its not 5 out of 250. its one out of one. A warrenty is to ensure that that the one bad block a customer buys will be made good.

That warrenty provided by the vendor in question is of little value if either you get one of the good blocks or are told to F off.

Nobody wants to spend the money, that kind of money and still risk a crap shoot over a warrenty or customer service. That is why it is irrellevent for all those who swear they got a good deal. They got luck and got a good deal so did not have to experience the bad warrenty or customer service. They're experience is irrelevent.

its those of of us who got bad service or a bad product AND those of us who risk being one of the unlucky few who may get a bad product or service in the future that should be allowed to address the issues.

and in all fairness, as crazy as it seems those of us who swear never to do business with them again ought to limit our opinions too. Funny as it is thier bad products and bad service will not affect us.

How ever in this small community you hurt one of us you hurt us all so we need to be dilligent in protecting the cherries from the dope pimps. We can grow this community if we can protect each other from this "entity".

If they come clean and offer a sensible warrenty and customer service then they have a chance to servive. Currently there simply is no way. There own warrenty and customer service indicates they have no faith in thier own product. Thus the customer finds themselves in a delema. 99% may get the good block and only 1 % get the bad block, but essentially with no warrenty nobody is willing to be that 1%.

The QC is a crasp shoot anyway. The problems are statistically random so you dont know whats wrong with how many products and the fact that some products have several problems and some have one clearly indicates that the odds of getting a product with problems is too great. That combined with a useless warrenty and a wrathful customer service. The odds are too great.

[Polar-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

That is essentially one of the core issues. and they dont get it. everybody knows that there are risks associated with the purchase of any product. even the best products have warrenties, why not because they are poorly made but because statistically there is always some probability that there will be a flaw.

Offering a warrenty is no indication of product quality. It IS an indication of service quality and vendor integrity.

If you make 250 engine blocks and only 5 are deffective thats pretty good quality control. But that means absolutly nothing to the customer. The customer is looking at one block and either 100% of that is good or 100% is bad. Its not 5 out of 250. its one out of one. A warrenty is to ensure that that the one bad block a customer buys will be made good.

That warrenty provided by the vendor in question is of little value if either you get one of the good blocks or are told to F off.

Nobody wants to spend the money, that kind of money and still risk a crap shoot over a warrenty or customer service. That is why it is irrellevent for all those who swear they got a good deal. They got luck and got a good deal so did not have to experience the bad warrenty or customer service. They're experience is irrelevent.

its those of of us who got bad service or a bad product AND those of us who risk being one of the unlucky few who may get a bad product or service in the future that should be allowed to address the issues.

and in all fairness, as crazy as it seems those of us who swear never to do business with them again ought to limit our opinions too. Funny as it is thier bad products and bad service will not affect us.

How ever in this small community you hurt one of us you hurt us all so we need to be dilligent in protecting the cherries from the dope pimps. We can grow this community if we can protect each other from this "entity".

If they come clean and offer a sensible warrenty and customer service then they have a chance to servive. Currently there simply is no way. There own warrenty and customer service indicates they have no faith in thier own product. Thus the customer finds themselves in a delema. 99% may get the good block and only 1 % get the bad block, but essentially with no warrenty nobody is willing to be that 1%.

The QC is a crasp shoot anyway. The problems are statistically random so you dont know whats wrong with how many products and the fact that some products have several problems and some have one clearly indicates that the odds of getting a product with problems is too great. That combined with a useless warrenty and a wrathful customer service. The odds are too great.

http://hooked-on-phonics.com/

Here's a link hope this helps.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Polar-Pontiac

http://hooked-on-phonics.com/

Here's a link hope this helps.

Hope this helps when you buy that MR-1 you want so bad!

[herdswoman]

My husband told me this nonsense was still going on....

For all of you still yammering about blocks, warranties, and how Scott's been done wrong, you may want to clarify what is actually going on this lawsuit. For those of you considering putting cash in DI's pocket to "help him out" with his legal expenses, you may want to consider that he is in court to attempt to untangle a web of his own weaving.

Please refer to the basis of the suit, found mid-paragraph 5 through paragraph six of the link posted on page one of this thread:

"Thereafter, from October 18, 2006 through November, 2006, Roberts posted a number of statements on the bulletin board pages of Internet sites related to automobile racing equipment, performance, and related subjects.
(Paragraph 6) As a result of these postings, Kauffman Racing filed a complaint in the Knox County Court of Common Pleas, alleging Robert's had injured the company's reputation and business by posting false and malicious statements on the Intranet. Kauffman Racing sought monetary damage from Roberts....."

Robert's defense, Paragraph 33:

"In his Brief to the Court, Roberts asserts, "There is no evidence he targeted Ohio residents or even targeted a business whose customers were limited to Ohio." Roberts adds, "he did not know Ohio residents would access the site." We find Roberts' arguement unconvincing....."

The majority opinion in Paragraph 34, which is pending appeal:

"Today, thanks to the accessibility of the Intranet, the barriers to generating publicity are slight, and the ethical standards regarding the acceptable levels of discourse have been lowered. As the ability to do harm has grown, so must the law's ability to protect the innocent."

Boldface and italics were added by me, for added focus on the issues.

In September of 2006, Tom & I journeyed to Maryland for the Cecil County event. Prior to this event, we had not heard of any of Scott Roberts' difficulties. However, we were told all about the circumstances and Scott Robert's anticipated response via the Internet, in great detail. All came about exactly as has been foretold to us, which indicates this was a planned smear campaign, deliberately designed to inflict as much damage to KRE's reputation as possible as a form of retribution. The postings by Scott Roberts in October, 2006 were not merely "blowing off steam" or wanting to alert the Pontiac community out of some sense of greater good, or to "protect others." His intent was self-serving, to extract his "pound of flesh".

The law regarding Internet postings of this nature is still in its developmental stages, and landmark cases are yet to be decided. The First Amendment does have its limits; and that is exactly the nature of this lawsuit. Those are issues to which Scott Roberts did not give thorough consideration, hence, he is now facing the Supreme Court of the State of Ohio by his own decision. He is the one who chose to pursue this suit further, and it has nothing to do with blocks, warranties, or Brinell tests. He is going to the Supreme Court to defend his actions (aka shooting off his mouth). The manner in which he made the statements, as well as the statements themselves are what is on trial. He can limit his legal fees at any time he chooses by not appealing. He can stand up and take responsibility for his words and the intent behind them. Or, he can continue to say he "did not know anyone from Ohio would access the site."

Responsibility and accountability takes many forms. One form can be that of a business taking care of its customers. Another form is telling the truth and owning up to one's actions. People sometimes do the wrong thing for the right reasons, but it is still the wrong thing. And when the wrong thing has legal consequences, it is up to individual to take responsibility.

One other thing, these bulletin boards may be publicly read, howver, they are privately owned. Freedom of speech and the First Amendment is also limited in that respect.

I see my homework is done being processed; and I have the rest of a term paper yet to write. Good evening.