[Mark Weymouth]

John I knew your frustration level and heck we have spoke enough about how to unfrustrate ourselves on the PS cars over the years let alone FAST cars. I am sure Bruno and I must be nuts to be the next guys to try and do the seemingly improbable.

As we progress we will chat at Stanton and get some more insight from you to help out.

Your motor is actually the basis of knowledge in which we have created our short term program around and the fact that the parts were already owned. It gave a good baseline to start from. In the end though we really will need to make some major changes to where we are going and all have gone before us. We have the ideas cemented and have been twidling with them. They look promising. The good thing is the current motor has provided some solid mph in past testing. It is enough mph to be reasonably competitive. The bigger problem is traction. As you said all that tq is a bear to put down. In past testing with the motor it was impossible to give it full throttle until the 1/8th was passing by. It still hit the mph numbers we need to be in the mix for a first time out at a FAST race. Unfortunately if we do not find a way to harness it we will have poor ET's and an ok mph. Mind you it is not a startling mph, nothing like what the front runners are hitting but a nice lttle number.

So far we have tested the chassis with a much milder motor but it surely performed better than hoped. We have also done some trans testing for the package and that has shown true progress. Now matting them all together at the same time, who knows if they will play nice or not.

But with the upgraded spec motor still a few weeks away from being back on the dyno, the next gen trans not being done until next week and the car far from built we have little time left to see if they will work together. In particular as we have to get a motor done for Ron's HO GTO for Stanton and dyno'd, get the SC/Rambler built/ready and test and tuned, and get the L88 test and tuned, and get Rich's SC/Rambler tied up and ready. Those come first. It all looks a bit daunting.

Dang this hobby is becoming a job. Heck I do not even get paid to do this stuff.

For this fall all we have time to do is get a solid start and find our footing. Over the winter we will give the project some major upgrades and work forward from what we have found. If we can come out and just be competitive with what you guys all did our first time out it would be a solid win for us I believe. Really that would be all that could be asked for the project currently. That would certianly get us set up well for the future.

Give me a call John if you have any inspirational words or tidbits that will help us make fewer mistakes.

BTW, Dave Dudek told me yesterday that Pat will be coming back out to play again next year. Everything is back in order for him and he is looking to have some fun once again. I know of another Pontiac FAST project trying to get some legs and we just may have 3 Poncho's going back at it after we have had none since you guys all gave it a try.

Mark

[1qikta]

Hmmmmmmm..

[gloryrestoparts]

and I forgot Jay is running in FAST now too. D'OH!!!!!!

and with a new motor now also.

boy, I must be getting old since they say the mind is the second thing to go. I can't remember what the first is though.

[Mark Weymouth]

Jay, absolutely my bad. I know better and we even know each other. I am getting older and lossing my memory...

Mark

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by Mark Weymouth

Jay, absolutely my bad. I know better and we even know each other. I am getting older and lossing my memory...

Mark

Its OK, Running 13's in FAST makes you forgetable....Maybe by VMP I will be mid pack. Running in the back has become old.

Mark,

What happened to the 70' RAIV TA that Dan Jensen had on display at the TA Nationals last year? I had heard he had track plans for it? I think the 11's were mentioned...as well as your name.

[Mark Weymouth]

Sitting here mindlessly eating a sandwich for lunch at a time that is closer to dinner and got to thinking about John's fears of how tough it is to get a Pontiac to work in FAST.

To offset some of the fears and show that we are making some good progress and even though our testing has been a bit disjointed as some of it was never meant to be done for FAST racing I will be a bit more open. Plus I really enjoy John, Paul and there dad. They have always been fabulously kind to me and I want them to maybe take this as a small push towards rejoining the fray. Plus two Pontiac teams working together on ideas and sharing progress could greatly shorten the learning curves for all. Maybe everyone on this forum can help me give a gentle push for them to turn their '69 Goat into a FAST RA IV for next season. John I will offer up front that what I learn I will share with you. Mostly in private of course. But I will offer some publicly here.

Here is where we stand:

1) We tested your motor on the dyno. And flowed the heads... Using your work and the motors ET/MPH as a guide here is how it has gone. We tested our current set up in a good but less than optimal car. The setup is making about 50 hp and 30 tq up on your setup. At this time of testing we were only playing around as we were far from the decision or thought to go racing in FAST. It was just a motor built that fit inside the FAST specs but really was more intended as garage furniture or maybe street use. And not remotely set up for max performance. It ran an MPH of what you would expect from the extra hp in car with similar weight to your T37. So it was your 116 + our hp difference (sorry folks not ready to put numbers out their but I will give enough info for you to make a solid guess) Our motors rpm window was similar to yours but just a bit higher. Our bird weights about 250 lbs. lighter than your T37. You can add that into the mph as well I hope at the race. What we are testing next is modeling out to about 50 more hp but keeping similar tq on our current motor specs. If this comes true or even if only a part of it is realized I hope it will put us forward. If not we run it as it currently is. These changes though we are hoping open up the rpm window by a solid 500 rpm with some extra hp. If we get the hp and rpm we can hopefully stack on a bit more mph to the equation above.

2) We have tested the trans set up we are going with in a car that runs what would equate to a PS setup. At that time we also tested our custom built tq converter. The test vehicle makes solid power. It would consistently turn lower 12.10's @ 115 mph on 1.82 short times with upper 12.08's as its fastest ever. We ran it on a day that had the worst air the car had ever run in. The air was 2500 feet and the car had run in air as low as 100 feet before but nothing ever over 2000. We did not re-jet or tune the car for the air. We simply tested the trans and converter. Our converter is very low on slip %. Anyhow the car ran the exact same short times as ever staying in the 1.82 range. The killer deal was the worst run of our test beat every previous run when comparing old time slips. Not only was its slowest time slip of the day better at 330', 594', 660', 1000' and 1/4 than the best it had ever previously run but the mph was up at every marker recorded. The converter was working because it was running the extra mph but was crossing the traps down 200 rpm from usual without all the slip of a normal high performance converter. The better thing is that it was now consistently running 11.8'[email protected]. The test cars traction down track on gear changes seemed to be stronger also. The car was running steadily .3 faster and + 1.5 mph. We even left the spare and jack in which usually come out. So worse air and weight and the worst run of the day dominated the best ever. We are checking over the trans to make sure that test day did no harm. That will be our race setup for now.

3) We have used our to be race vehicle set up as a PS car. The suspension work/testing we have done, on a decidedly much less powerful motor, was consistantly pulling most to all of the left front tire off the ground on luanch all three days we had it out testing. It hooked perfect down track also. Now lets not get too excited as the car makes a ton less power than what it will have to handle with a FAST motor. I am sure the apple cart will be good and upset by the major change in performance. It does offer an optimistic starting point for now though.

If we can get our motor to rpm like we hope with the newest setup it should allow us to use a 4.10 gear in Virginia. That should help us out over the 3.73 you needed to run.

Certianly we have a long ways to go. The Chevy and Hemi Mopar crowd are turning 7500+ rpm and our hope is the new setup cuts our deficit down from the current 6000 max trap rpm to a usful 6500 trap rpm. That still leaves us 1000 rpm of flexibilty short for now. The next step will be to try and work that down to 500 rpm short fall going up to 7000 rpm in the future and adding another 80+ hp. Likely though that will be the end of the trail for Poncho's in fast with the parts we have to work with. But a 7000 rpm motor with serious juice would be awfully fun.

John I hope this inspires you to rethink racing FAST. I think working together would truly shorten developement time for both groups and maybe save a couple bucks over what you probably have rightly deemed "cost prohibitive". Our current setup is a bit expensive but managable. The next motor may send that into an ugly realm to say the least. But if we can get pretty competitive with the current setup ultimately with the 440+6 and Ford cars maybe that will be good enough for a long while.

Give those Pontiac's the raspberries everyone.

Mark

[Mark Weymouth]

Jay I have only driven it twice and Dan keeps taking it to shows. We won Autorama with it and also got best restored interior. Irony is the 23K mile car has its original interior still.

The two times I have driven it of course were both at the drag strip. It showed solid promise. It has a nice handle on what the Judge has done. We just have been chasing other dreams down the track lately. One day we may race it in public but Dan seems to refuse to give the car up. I have never actually had it at my house. That is ok Dan is as good a freind as I could ever ask for. If he likes it around and sneaks drives out in it here and there so be it. He has more sweat in the car than anyone by a long margin.

Mark

[spb350]

Anybody looking for a fresh 71 455 HO YE shortblock, I020. PM me. Steve

[threefidee]

Originally Posted by 1qikta

Its OK, Running 13's in FAST makes you forgetable....Maybe by VMP I will be mid pack. Running in the back has become old.

Mark,

What happened to the 70' RAIV TA that Dan Jensen had on display at the TA Nationals last year? I had heard he had track plans for it? I think the 11's were mentioned...as well as your name.

I have heard through the grapevine that it will be ready for Weymouth Rental service. I will leave my 64 GTO there for some love and want to be first in line to rent the 70 TA RA 4

[Mark Weymouth]

What were thinking Jody, maybe just in time for you at Woodward.

Remember this is a HO thread that has been completely co-opted.

So in the vain of returning it to the CHOOSEN love. You may only rent the HO T/A.

Mark

[J GLASGO]

Mark,Just got back in town.Vacation is over and i am back to work on the 70. The 69 actually does need freshened up,actually needs completely dissassembled and redone,the 1990 resto is showing its age.I could never take the 4-speed out of it,so fast would be hard with that car.I think i know where your heading with your project FAST car,and if you get the suspension dialed,which i know it is,it would give hope to some of us wanna be FAST racers.I have been half heartedly looking for a rust free body to start with on my project.First i have to get this 70 done for Dans,it has been a real PITA.Look forward to talking at Dan and Bobs race.BTW Jay has showed me his current plans,and providing he keeps his recipricating weight light enough,he may have a real stout setup himself.I am excited to see how that works out also.Good luck to both of you!!!!!!!!

[Judge273]

Pure Stock is coming up soon: http://www.geocities.com/psmcdr/eventinfo.html

I hope to make it this year!

[OVERULD]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Pure Stock is coming up soon: http://www.geocities.com/psmcdr/eventinfo.html

I hope to make it this year!

Mike: Are you taking one of your cars?

BJ

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by OVERULD

Mike: Are you taking one of your cars?

BJ

You should come to VMP this Oct..Both F/S and FAST will be running. It is the closest event to us here in Ga

[OVERULD]

Originally Posted by 1qikta

You should come to VMP this Oct..Both F/S and FAST will be running. It is the closest event to us here in Ga

Jay:
I'd like to talk with you about that - shoot me a PM with your contact info and details. I'll give you a call this week.

BJ

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by OVERULD

Jay:
I'd like to talk with you about that - shoot me a PM with your contact info and details. I'll give you a call this week.

BJ

Will do,

Here is some video of that event last year...it was a nice turnout for both classes.Even the Canadians came down.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGFRR7grLjY

Its not every day you get the chance to race a '69 HEMI GTX.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by Mark Weymouth

What were thinking Jody, maybe just in time for you at Woodward.

Remember this is a HO thread that has been completely co-opted.

So in the vain of returning it to the CHOOSEN love. You may only rent the HO T/A.

Mark

Back to cams & 455's for a moment.

As far as an over the counter purchase,who's got the best/most suitable 068 "blueprint" grind for a D port 455/6x-4/4peed street engined T/A?

I'm familiar with Cranes version.

Anybody else of note?

[Mark Weymouth]

Melling is who we use when it is off the rack. Melling ground cams as an OE supplier to Pontiac back when they were new.

Mark

[2manyT/A'S]

I have one of their 744's in my 71.

Wasn't aware that they offered an 068.

Do you happen to know their 068 part # ?

Thanks

[Lloyd-TX]

Melling PN SPC7 is the 068 camshaft.