[dr-doug]

I've been gone for a few weeks, but had some engines getting dynoed and thought you guys might get a kick out of the results.
For my '71 455HO (Silver judge), compression @ 9.2-1

For my '70 400III stick(Sable Black Judge) with air @ 9.2-1

For one of my '65 vert tripower 4 speeds @9.2-1

What do you think? DW
P.S. Elk hunting stunk.......

[quicksilver97ta]

Engine dyno right? I think those are very respectable numbers for street cars. That 389 has got some torque!

[dr-doug]

Engine dyno, with everything hooked up...Everything externally is absolutely numbers correct original. Probably could bump the numbers up a bit with better exhaust manifolds on the 389, but it has what it has. Internally compression has been lowered a point and a half, with hydraulic rollers, roller lifters, good screw in studs etc. And ofcourse everything has been balanced. I can't wait to start driving some of these...DW

[bulletpruf]

Doug -

Is that the motor for the Mayfair Maize vert?

Scott

[robz]

Originally Posted by dr-doug

Engine dyno, with everything hooked up...Everything externally is absolutely numbers correct original. Probably could bump the numbers up a bit with better exhaust manifolds on the 389, but it has what it has. Internally compression has been lowered a point and a half, with hydraulic rollers, roller lifters, good screw in studs etc. And ofcourse everything has been balanced. I can't wait to start driving some of these...DW

Dr. Doug, is that 29 deg Total Mech Timing correct on all 3 engines????

If it is, I'm sure bumping it up to about 34 would result in even better numbers...

[dr-doug]

Scott, No it's for my reef car I'll be doing when I finish these 5 judges. I had a different machine shop do the mayfair cars engine and it had some issues when my new machine shop tried to dyno it. It's having the heads redone correctly as we speak, then back to the dyno, should have the same if not better results later this week...DW

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by robz

Dr. Doug, is that 29 deg Total Mech Timing correct on all 3 engines????

If it is, I'm sure bumping it up to about 34 would result in even better numbers...

Noticed that as well. I'll bet that it's some default bogus # in the software and the dyno operator didn't bother to plug in the actual timing #.

Pretty nice numbers, DD. Ought to be some great running Pontiacs!

[dr-doug]

ROBZ, The Cam I'm using in these is a Comp Cam K51-423-9(Hyd Flat Tappet;800-4800rpm;Adv.Dur. 252 Int./Exh.;V.Lift .425 Int./Exh.;Lobe 110 deg). And the distributers have electronic ignition inserts(for the lack of a better term), as opposed to points. Are you sure bumping the timing to 34 will improve the numbers? DW

[dr-doug]

Lloyd, I'll have to check with the machine shop, this dyno stuff is new to me but definately the way to go...DW

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by dr-doug

Lloyd, I'll have to check with the machine shop, this dyno stuff is new to me but definately the way to go...DW

DD - I have a feeling that the "29" # is bogus, but if it's not there's a lot of torque and HP left in those engines.

Most iron head Pontiacs "like" 34-36 degress of total ignition lead.

[robz]

Originally Posted by dr-doug

ROBZ, The Cam I'm using in these is a Comp Cam K51-423-9(Hyd Flat Tappet;800-4800rpm;Adv.Dur. 252 Int./Exh.;V.Lift .425 Int./Exh.;Lobe 110 deg). And the distributers have electronic ignition inserts(for the lack of a better term), as opposed to points. Are you sure bumping the timing to 34 will improve the numbers? DW

The difference on my RAIII is incredible (Up from 29 to 33)..At WOT, it made touching the dash almost impossible on takeoff...You really felt like you are being pushed back in your seat alot more...but may be as Lloyd mentioned, too..just a bogus number, but definitely worth checking into...

[OVERULD]

Great numbers on that engine Doug. I agree with Lloyd, I bet that 29 Degrees of total timing is a bogus default setting. That motor, if it's like mine, will only produce that kind of torque with about 36 degrees all-in.

If it really was running at 29 degrees all-in on the dyno and made 481 lb ft of torque, man, you are abosolutely going to love it at 36 degrees!

BJ

[dr-doug]

Just called the machine shop, they're really big on being able to run on junk gas. They said they did a "timing search", and the safest area was at 29, but that if I wanted to really run any of these to buy some good gas and advance the timing and I would be amazed...somewhere between 10-20% increase in all numbers, which blows me away. So the 29 isn't a bogus number afterall, that's where they're set.
The '71 is setup with a very well restored "built" tranny, a suggested 2200 stall converter, and 3.73 posi......Should be fun...DW

[Lloyd-TX]

Doug - IF the engines were machined and assembled correctly, and IF they're really all 9.2:1, and IF the fuel systems and carburetors are dialed in, 34-36 degrees of lead will NOT require anything other than pump fuel.

My Formula 455 engine is 9.98:1, and I run 34 degrees with absolutely no ping, spark knock or detonation.

In fact, at only 29 degrees of lead, I'll bet they're gonna run hot!

Hmmmmmm . . . I hope your engine guys know what they're doing.

[superdutybob]

DD

I agree with Lloyd on this one. 29 degrees will cause excess heat in the motor and will not yield the best numbers. I run 34 in my SD with 9.5 CR on pump premium without any issues. My cam is more radical and probably fills the cylinders better than what you are running. Get one of those up to 34-36 dgrees and you will be amazed.

BTW: They will all get better MPG's too!

[quicksilver97ta]

Old balancer? maybe the hub slipped. Regardless of what the balancer reads with those numbers I think the timing must be close to optimal, at least for whatever gas they used for the tuning.

[robz]

Originally Posted by dr-doug

Just called the machine shop, they're really big on being able to run on junk gas. They said they did a "timing search", and the safest area was at 29, but that if I wanted to really run any of these to buy some good gas and advance the timing and I would be amazed...somewhere between 10-20% increase in all numbers, which blows me away. So the 29 isn't a bogus number afterall, that's where they're set.
The '71 is setup with a very well restored "built" tranny, a suggested 2200 stall converter, and 3.73 posi......Should be fun...DW

What do they mean by junk gas??? If it's low octane (ie: 87) then yes maybe you should move to a higher number (maybe 91 or whatever is the highest pump gas you could get) and test it at 34 DEG and see if it pings. Keep moving your timing up until you hear it detonate, then go down 1-2 degs to be safe (as you sometimes may not hear the detonation but it could still be happening)...My $0.02

[dr-doug]

I think what is meant by junk gas is low octane, no lead, ethanol added crap. I must admit the 29 degrees is a bit of a difference from what you guys are suggesting, but they do measure temp of all the cylinders and try to come up with the optimal setup.

I wouldn't say this is all Greek to me, more like Pig Latin, I understand it, but you gotta talk slow...DW

[TR]

What cam were you running in the RA III?

Thanks

[dr-doug]

Comp Cam K51-423-9(Hyd Flat Tappet;800-4800rpm;Adv.Dur. 252 Int./Exh.;V.Lift .425 Int./Exh.;Lobe 110 deg)....DW