[lemans411]

i was on butlers site and they sell the moroso pulley with a spacer for 60 bucks or so. cast pulley wont look great with my polished aluminum march pulleys but what do ya do?
my summit sfi hasnt had any problems in 6 years of abuse from my 450 hp 400. not exactly a monster but enough to shake a pp balancer apart i guess.

hey ed what are you gonna replace yours with on the tr6?

[BruceWilkie]

Pro-Race and Pro-Sport are sold under Summit label also Ford Racing balancer is Pro-Race a US company that has a PRIMARY business of selling dampers they manufacture themselves here in USA! I'd say quite comparable to an ATI.

Scat website had a note on broken crank snouts they mention crank balancing with Fluid dampers or rattler type as being difficult to impossible among other causes of crank snout failure. (Loose fit another BTW)

Problem I see with viscous fluid dampening is at what point is the fluid the correct viscosity for a given harmonic at a particular rpm (I'm certain it wont be the same constant) and the ability to stay at that viscosity??? Think about that long and hard. How do you accurately insure balance on a rattler that has parts that wobble or a fluid damper that is always off balance when stationary??? Can you balance a crank in longitude instead of lateral and expect it to be same when used in lateral. (same difference between static vs dynamic tire balancing) Dont think its not important to balance a rotating assembly with all attached parts including pulleys??? Maybe not critical in under 6000 rpm applications with a shorter stroke motor, but with a longer stroke 6000 rpm could be critical!

I have to say I was going to use a rattler till I did some homework when it came time to buy one for my Ford. Its still better than a viscous damper IMO but I'm glad I researched further.

BTW on the 460 ford site ProProducts and Pro Comp(somewhat) ANYTHING is like a running joke when it comes to parts selection. They suggest you get your GM and Mopar buddies to use that stuff. (any of it) What Ive seen of it, I wouldnt want on anything. Why some Pontiac vendors are selling it is beyond me.

[Half-Inch Stud]

NOTICE: PMD crank snout is in TENSION.

160ft-lbs pulling on the snout for TENSION, while the Balancer neck & timing gear are in COMPRESSION.

Thus, a faulty damper can allow a TORSIONAL harmonic to grow. That torsional growth can be seen to hammer at the snout key like an "air-gun" kicker. Such coustic activity will allow an existing gouge/crack in the Crank snout to propagate and peel apart.

Torsional harmonics: the force that rips crank snouts off.

Bending monents: the force that rips Rear Axle flanges. <-- how rare that is until wheel-hop TORSIONALS occur.

HIS

[elevatorman51]

I replaced my PP sfi last week with the Power bond sfi "Jegs house brand" and I will say that although the balancer seems intact it slide easily off the crank. It measures crudly 4 thousanths bigger (inside calipers not a bore gage) and the PB unit took slight effort to slide it on.

[mr68]

WOW, talk about interesting timing. The last time I had the GTO out I noticed a vibration in the rear view mirrior that I did not have before. I did drive the car abot 45 miles and parked it. After checking things out and could not find anything I read this thread. In doing so I went down stairs and sure enough there is about half inch of play in the harmonic balancer ring......looks like I found my vibration. So whose balancer do I run on my 505 combo.

[jimdavis]

Hi. I am the chief operating officer and co-owner for Professional Products. For those of you who don't know me, let me give you a brief rundown of my background in this industry. Many years ago I started out as a drag racer and at one time held both ends of the NHRA national record in my class. I started two successful magazines back in the '60's; Super Stock Magazine and Stock Car Racing Magazine. I was president of B&M Racing & Performance Products for 18 years. President of Russell Performance Products for 2 years. In 1997, with two U.S. partners, we started Professional Products.

Now to the damper issue. We had a problem in the past with the bonding process that attaches the elastomer to the hub and ring. This problem existed well over a year ago and has since been resolved by going to a different process along with some other changes. I suspect that the damper failures that have occurred have all been on these older dampers. Even though a damper may have been purchased fairly recently, it could have come from older stock that was in our customer's warehouse. Since we changed the bonding process the number of spun dampers (bonding failure) has dropped to near zero. Our current warranty rate on failed dampers is less than 1% of what we sell. The industry average for an acceptable warranty rate is about 3%.

Obviously, we would like to see it at 0% and that is always the goal that we work towards. Realistically, no matter how well a product is made, you will never reach a 0% failure rate. Even a highly regarded damper like ATI has some failures.

I would like to address some other comments made in this forum. One member wrote that because our instructions suggested you line up your old damper TDC mark with the timing pointer, we were admitting that our timing marks were not accurate. This is not the case. Our timing marks are extremely accurate. This suggestion was made because both Ford and Chevy have used different timing marks on the damper (Ford) or different locations for the timing pointer (Ford and Chevy). By lining up the TDC mark on your old damper before removing it, it just makes it easier to install the new one. We have three sets of timing marks on our Ford damper and by doing what we suggest, it automatically tells you which set of marks are correct for your engine. On the Chevys, ALL aftermarket dampers use the '69 and later timing pointer location. So if your engine is pre '69, you have to use a different timing pointer. The forum member who made this post somehow interpreted our mention of using a different pointer as meaning our marks were in the wrong position. Every aftermarket damper manufacturer uses the later TDC mark.

Another member commented that Pro-Race and Pro-Street dampers are U.S. made. This is incorrect. This is an Australian company with a U.S. warehouse. Their Pro-Race line is made in Australia and the Pro-Street line is made in China.

Admittedly we have had some problems with our dampers. We feel confident that these issues have been resolved. We do stand 100% behind our products. While we have a one year warranty on all our dampers (many of our competitors do not warranty race dampers) we typically have replaced every failed damper even if it is out of warranty.

If any of you would like to communicate directly with me, my email address is: [email protected].

[JKrull66]

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=577458

Some more reading for ya Jim.

John Krull

[Me Notyou]

Originally Posted by jimdavis

Hi. I am the chief operating officer and co-owner for Professional Products. For those of you who don't know me, let me give you a brief rundown of my background in this industry. Many years ago I started out as a drag racer and at one time held both ends of the NHRA national record in my class. I started two successful magazines back in the '60's; Super Stock Magazine and Stock Car Racing Magazine. I was president of B&M Racing & Performance Products for 18 years. President of Russell Performance Products for 2 years. In 1997, with two U.S. partners, we started Professional Products.

Now to the damper issue. We had a problem in the past with the bonding process that attaches the elastomer to the hub and ring. This problem existed well over a year ago and has since been resolved by going to a different process along with some other changes. I suspect that the damper failures that have occurred have all been on these older dampers. Even though a damper may have been purchased fairly recently, it could have come from older stock that was in our customer's warehouse. Since we changed the bonding process the number of spun dampers (bonding failure) has dropped to near zero. Our current warranty rate on failed dampers is less than 1% of what we sell. The industry average for an acceptable warranty rate is about 3%.

Obviously, we would like to see it at 0% and that is always the goal that we work towards. Realistically, no matter how well a product is made, you will never reach a 0% failure rate. Even a highly regarded damper like ATI has some failures.

I would like to address some other comments made in this forum. One member wrote that because our instructions suggested you line up your old damper TDC mark with the timing pointer, we were admitting that our timing marks were not accurate. This is not the case. Our timing marks are extremely accurate. This suggestion was made because both Ford and Chevy have used different timing marks on the damper (Ford) or different locations for the timing pointer (Ford and Chevy). By lining up the TDC mark on your old damper before removing it, it just makes it easier to install the new one. We have three sets of timing marks on our Ford damper and by doing what we suggest, it automatically tells you which set of marks are correct for your engine. On the Chevys, ALL aftermarket dampers use the '69 and later timing pointer location. So if your engine is pre '69, you have to use a different timing pointer. The forum member who made this post somehow interpreted our mention of using a different pointer as meaning our marks were in the wrong position. Every aftermarket damper manufacturer uses the later TDC mark.

Another member commented that Pro-Race and Pro-Street dampers are U.S. made. This is incorrect. This is an Australian company with a U.S. warehouse. Their Pro-Race line is made in Australia and the Pro-Street line is made in China.

Admittedly we have had some problems with our dampers. We feel confident that these issues have been resolved. We do stand 100% behind our products. While we have a one year warranty on all our dampers (many of our competitors do not warranty race dampers) we typically have replaced every failed damper even if it is out of warranty.

If any of you would like to communicate directly with me, my email address is: [email protected].

If you were having trouble with the old dampers, why not recall the older stock that could cause a catastrophic motor failure? I'm not trying to pitch a bitch here but if some of my customers work might have been compromised by fault of me or my employees
( Welding shop, heavy equipment ) I make sure the problem doesn't arise even though I'm not liable for "collateral damage".

[Skip Fix]

I was kind of wondering the same thing. Got a serial number on the SFI tag to check as I have one on my pump gas motor too.

[RUDOLFSSON]

I have one PP balancer, it sits in a pile of used auto parts... It's the only part that hasn’t been used.LOL…. After inspecting the piece and seeing the lack of craftsmanship plus seeing many units go bad and hurting possibly some motors I’ve come to the conclusion to never ever use one of your products. It was a complete waste of money, no doubt…… I don’t see how you’re going to fix the bad reputation this damper has.
KR

[grandville455]

WEll I bought mine last yr and if its old stock I want my money refunded!.Thats Bs! I could have ruined my engine!. I got mine from cnc motor sports and of course he said he would work with me and replace it especially after i told them pp would atleast exchange it! well Guess what they wouldnt email me back after i told them that and of course now it is just past a yr gone!.. I just bought a pioneer sfi one for $169.. give the difference from yours to this one and i will be happy Jim!

[baron_]

...and here's mine
Was about to use it on a twin turbo 461 forged crank/rod/piston stroker 400

I bought it about 1.5 years ago....great....

[BruceWilkie]

http://www.pro-race.com/about.htm My error on US made. Regardless it is a quality piece.

Before purchasing a balancer I did a search on various boards for comments and complaints. Pro-Race did not come up with complaints. Pro Products did have complaints and disappointment come up with their products (alarmingly so).

That some are out there still with a possible defect and not recalled from the warehouses and distributors and owners speaks VOLUMES. Does someone have to get KILLED first???

Quote Jim Davis "This problem existed well over a year ago and has since been resolved by going to a different process along with some other changes. I suspect that the damper failures that have occurred have all been on these older dampers."

You have only resolved PART of the problem Jim Davis!
How many potential bombs are still out there Jim?
Wheres the recall notices?
Someone gets hurt or killed and you (by the above statement) will have your hands full in court. Most lawyers would have a field day with that admission. I know a recall isnt cheap but you really should do just that. It might help business in the long run or at least limit your liability exposure. Personally I'd have a hard time sleeping knowing I had a product out there that potentially wasnt safe. Especially when its SUPPOSED TO BE A SAFETY ITEM!!!

BTW Many enthusiasts exceed warranty periods before they even use a product due to project delays. If they use it and it fails they just typically replace with another brand and throw the old one away in disgust, figuring it will be a hassle getting it warranteed and more importantly do they want to risk another failure.

[Jack Ferris]

This is not good. I have one in that time frame in use and 2 two more to be put into service. Why not exchange them out? This is not good for business. Mine or yours. I'd rather buy new ones out of my pocket than have to explain failure to people that pay me money to build their motors. A lot of us already went through this with the cam/lifter failures.

[Jagtec1]

Mine is from that same time period. It will get junked when I build my new shortblock, and I will not get another. I cannot afford to lose a motor, or worse.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Still running the PP balancer on my personal driver after having that replaced the BHJ that spun after 5 years. It is right on the money TDC wise.
Also have one on my wifes car. No issues.

I have sold quite a few of them over the past 5 years and so far no one has called or complained about one.

Jim Glad you took the time to come on the board and post.

69GTO, KRE had block & customer service issues and people still buy from them.
Bruce same deal on replacement or taking care of the bad blocks and warranty.
Grandville 455. Do the rules only apply to certain companies?
I see the deal & posts in the BB section with Streaka and "would buy if you still wanna make those Billet covers".

Explain the rules that your using to judge companies or manufactures, because i don't see any standards that people are going by?????????????

Race Hard & Have fun. If it ain't broke it's hard to fix or find out if it's an issue?

[79TA455STROKED]

WOW,
I just got my new combo together and have one of these sfi balancers.
A problem im having is my timing seems to be retarding about 4 deg when i give it some throttle.
Its a msd dist,6al box with the dist locked.
I set it at 38 deg and it retards to about 33-34 deg when i hit it.

The balancer was rite on the money tdc when i degreed my cam but i wonder if it has since started to move causing timing retard problem im having?
Guess is should check it out as a possibility.
I bought it in 5/06 but didnt get motor fired untill 4/07 and the balancer has been great up untill now.
I guess i fall under the old stock category.

Will you guys replace this thing with a new stock one even if it is still good before it goes bad and takes out my motor???
Who do i contact?

[JKrull66]

I have sold quite a few of them over the past 5 years and so far no one has called or complained about one.

Race Hard & Have fun. If it ain't broke it's hard to fix or find out if it's an issue?[/quote]

The one off my 535 came with the shortblock from your shop... but it is over 2 years old now. I figured it is a paper weight. No use crying over spilt milk. The ring came off and took out the timing cover at PSN this year, mabee 20 runs total on it. Even if it was replaced I would not trust it. If it will help you in some way it is yours.
Just glad to see others being warned to check thier units, and that it was not likley something else is wrong.
Just my 2 cents.
John Krull

[grandville455]

I agree!.. Don't really care who has had good luck and who hasn't these are a problem and will continue to be a problem as far as I am concerned!! I wont buy another one ever! what if it came off when i was timing my car and hit me or someone else i loved and fuc**** killed them and PP new there was a problem and didnt recall them is that ok too!! JMO

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by 79TA455STROKED

WOW,
I just got my new combo together and have one of these sfi balancers.
A problem im having is my timing seems to be retarding about 4 deg when i give it some throttle.
Its a msd dist,6al box with the dist locked.
I set it at 38 deg and it retards to about 33-34 deg when i hit it.

The balancer was rite on the money tdc when i degreed my cam but i wonder if it has since started to move causing timing retard problem im having?
Guess is should check it out as a possibility.
I bought it in 5/06 but didnt get motor fired untill 4/07 and the balancer has been great up untill now.
I guess i fall under the old stock category.

Will you guys replace this thing with a new stock one even if it is still good before it goes bad and takes out my motor???
Who do i contact?

The balancer won't retard under rpm but a dist or ignition box can.