[77 TRASHCAN]

I currently have a 350 Pontiac in my car. It would be a good choice to do what you are doing. As mentioned above, you will need ALL the motor mount stuff, and all the brackets, because the 305 is a Chevrolet, and a different trans. The motor mount parts might be the biggest challange...but you will need that stuff for the 455, when that day comes.

Also, as mentioned above, pull the intake, valley pan, and oil pan. Seal it back up, if it's worthy.

Bret, are the 46's the old 350 H.O. heads??? What are the 94's???

The 305 can go in the river.....

I had this fairly good shape 350, out of a wrecked 70 firebird. I performed no machine work on it, valve job, dingleberry hone job, new cam sealed power cs694 (I think?) runs and drives good. Gets around 17-19 MPG, could be better if I took some time to tune it...Don't drive it much...

I did all this in 1991/1992 DON"T screw around and take as long as I have to get the proper engine in the car!!!......LOL

The #7 exhaust lobe had gone flat in my original 400, couldn't drive it any more.

[z_bag]

Maybe I missed it but another positive to putting a Pontiac 350 in is when you get everything sorted out putting the Pontiac motor in, everything will then be a direct bolt in when its time to implant your 455.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Bret, are the 46's the old 350 H.O. heads??? What are the 94's???

No,the #46 heads are'nt the old 350 H-O heads.

'68 350 H-O's got the #18 pressed stud/small valve/small chamber heads.
(like 68cc nominal spec IIRC)

The '69 350 H-O's got the #48 screw-in stud/big valve/small chamber heads.

There is some debate about the big valve heads on these small bore 350's,I wont go into details here,but suffice it to say those #48 heads were mostly overkill for a 350 cid engine,and there are some issues to be aware of if one is using the big valve heads on these small bore engines,especially if one is using an aftermarket high lift cam or higher ratio rockers or such.

'68 350 H-O's got the 066 cam for autos,and the 067 cam for the manual trans.

'69 350 H-O's got the 067 cam for autos,and the 068 cam for the manual trans.

HP for the '68 350 H-O's was 320 fwhp.
HP for the '69 350 H-O's was 330 fwhp in the GTO's and 325 fwhp in the firebirds.

CR for the 350 H-O for both years is stated as being 10.5:1,but the factory always rated these engines about .5 point more than they would actually be,so in reality it was more like a honest 10.0:1 engine.

The '69 #46's are actually off a 400 engine,the 290 hp big car version to be precise,those typically have small valves,pressed studs,and a chamber that's stated as being 72cc nominal spec,but like most all 72cc heads they'll typically measure a few CC's more than that on "virgin" heads.

74'ish cc heads on a stock bore 350 will typically net somewhere around 9.5:1 CR.

The '71 #94 heads are just a low compression 350 head,not 100% sure on the cc's of these,but would expect them to be like the later 350 heads and be appx. 89cc "nominal" or somewhere just slightly above that spec,and these too will be pressed stud heads,with the "early" style plugs (13/16" hex w/gasket seats).

CR for the '71 350 is stated as being 8.0:1,and again that's probably fairly optimistic.

Later 350's are rated @ 7.6:1 CR,and that's probably a bit closer to the truth for the low compression 350 engines.

OE spec cam for the '71 350 is the 555 cam.

OE hp rating for the '71 350 is like 250 hp.

HTH

Bret P.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Thanks Bret,
The 94's are probably similar to the 11's on the 70 350's...(my 350 has the 70 #11 heads, comp ratio listed as 8.8:1, real world 8:1....LOL)
There was a thread, a few monthes ago, (Dave),user name 1967Tempest (I think)
he was hunting head gaskets for his 350 in an older Pontiac. Someone reccomended some Victor head gaskets, that fit a 350 bore, not the 400 bore size, (that's all FelPro has for a 350)......bla bla....In all the conversation, someone mentioned to make sure the gasket fits the block bore AND the chamber, to be safe.....

Do the 46's combustion chambers match up w/ the 350 cyl bore, enabling the use of a small bore gasket???? or not...

Thanks again
Jeff
forgive me for barging into this thread topic.....

[69Goat1]

I know this is not the head you guys are talking about but 73 350's had a 46 head as well. I had a 73 Lemans Sport Coupe 350 with a set of 46's, headers, performer intake and a 3310 vacuum secondary Holley and it ran very well for what it was. If my memory is correct it had screw in studs. This is the only 350P I have ever had but it would sure burn the tires in that big Lemans! I wish I still had that car...

[screamingchief]

Yeah,mid year in '73 all heads became screw in stud heads,so the late '73 and all '74 350 #46 heads were screw in stud heads,I've had a bunch of those in the past,as I had a few 350 cid venturas from that era,those are decent heads,they're basically a small valve version of the 5C-4 or 6X-4 heads.

If one was gonna toss a 4" stroker crank in a 350 to make a mild 383 combo,those would be a pretty good head to use for something like that,as that would be like 9.0:1 then as the longer stroke crank adds "swept area" and thus nets a higher CR even with the 89'ish cc heads.

That very well may be the "next step" for that low budget 350 build of mine.

But I dunno,I'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

FWIW

Bret P.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Thanks Bret,
The 94's are probably similar to the 11's on the 70 350's...(my 350 has the 70 #11 heads, comp ratio listed as 8.8:1, real world 8:1....LOL)
There was a thread, a few monthes ago, (Dave),user name 1967Tempest (I think)
he was hunting head gaskets for his 350 in an older Pontiac. Someone reccomended some Victor head gaskets, that fit a 350 bore, not the 400 bore size, (that's all FelPro has for a 350)......bla bla....In all the conversation, someone mentioned to make sure the gasket fits the block bore AND the chamber, to be safe.....

Do the 46's combustion chambers match up w/ the 350 cyl bore, enabling the use of a small bore gasket???? or not...

Thanks again
Jeff
forgive me for barging into this thread topic.....

That topic has come up in the past,but there still does'nt seem to be a solid concensus on that deal just yet.

I have'nt run across it in the past,but honestly that does'nt mean anything,there could be numerous reasons why one might not notice that sorta problem.

I agree that it's a good idea to watch for that sorta thing,but how one chooses to deal with it will probably vary on a case to case basis.

I cant tell you head X will fit with gasket Y though.

I have a set of '70 small valve #16's here,and when I get around to buying some headgaskets for my build,I guess I'll see for myself where I stand on that deal,I know this though,the Fel-Pro head gaskets are'nt even in the running for that small bore engine,honestly I have'nt even really decided on just what head gaskets I'm gonna use yet,seems to me he had to hunt down those Victor-Reinz 350 head gaskets,so availability may play into those sorta choices as well.

Ace @ PPR is always a good source of info for this sorta 350 based stuff,and he usually chimes in on threads like this,so maybe he'll drop in and give his on the subject.

FWIW

Bret P.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Thanks, Bret,
Just wondering. I sold auto parts for 13 years, even aside from that, we all need to pay extreme attention when building an engine. If the sealing ring for the combustion chamber is exposed in the bore/chamber, that deal ain't gonna fly, unfortunately some folks don't have the knowledge of that....I'm still learning...LOL

My 350 has the big bore Felpro gaskets on it, w/ the 11 heads, I've had as much as 44 degrees total timing in it, w/o even a ping one. (I massaged EVERYTHING in this 350 before assembly, polished the stock piston tops, removed all the sharp edges in the comb. chambers.) My 11 heads have a Jim Hand port job, w/ a Cliff style ported intake, in 1991, (I have a friend that builds engines, his input, a Chevy guy, imagine that) I might do a couple of mod's (did I mention cheap) to my essentially stock 350, since all my hobby money is paying for gas, at the moment. My major thumper engines will still HAVE to wait.
Thanks again.
Jeff

[East]

You sure seem to be in the habit of saying just the WRONG thing and nothing helpful to the post.

I read your profile and it is admirable if true - just can't tell from your spelling and grammar.

Why don't you spend more time thinking about what you type and treating people that don't know you and your twisted sense of humor with the same respect that you would like to receive.

Or better yet, if you have nothing useful to post, DON"T POST!

It doesn't take a Master Degree to figure that out. Just a little common sense and common courtesy.

YOUR PROFILE:

Biography
Masters Degree/ Aerospace industry,Vocational Educator, Aircraft Mechanic,
Location
Bisbee, AZ USA
Interests
Pontiac Convertibles
Occupation
Aircraft Mechanic/Instructor


And just to make sure that i was talking out of my arse and getting the wrong impression of you, I went through all of your posts. They were about as useful as these last ones.

I haven't posted as many times as you but I tried to return as much help as I has received.

[screamingchief]

FYI: Do yourself a favor and do what I did long ago and add him to your "ingnore" list.



Bret P.

[F ROCK]

i had a 1970 low compression, #11 headed,q-jetted, 350 in my GTO for a year while i built my 455.
it ran great. pulled pretty hard too, i shoulda kept it for backup...

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

FYI: Do yourself a favor and do what I did long ago and add him to your "ingnore" list.



Bret P.

Doh,make that "ignore".

Damn I gotta start watch my spelling more closely,been in too much of a hurry posting here lately.



Bret P.

[Overkillphil]

Same problem here as well, except it started when I began using my iPhone to access te site. Damn small screen and tiny keyboard! Or is it the old eyes?!

[Pontirag]

Its not a question of ignoring me but when to ignore me. your choice. The comment was intended to be funny and certainly not "twisted". Not when you consider we are on a pontiac web site and somebody starts talking about driving a caddlilac. I thought that was funny.

My comment was not intended to be offensive. and it was not directed at a person but at a comment .
I apologiesd to the one person who had the right to be offended. thats more courtesy than is common. as for my contributions ..thank you. Its not often people take the time to look past what bothers them and see the real contributions others make. I got over tryin to win personality contests long ago. Not every one shares our points of view.

anyway... RE: the pontiac 350. Since PY is footing the bill for this lets stay away from fords, chevy's and caddilac.

the personal data is not current

[g-body_vet]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

Its not a question of ignoring me but when to ignore me. your choice. The comment was intended to be funny and certainly not "twisted". Not when you consider we are on a pontiac web site and somebody starts talking about driving a caddlilac. I thought that was funny.

My comment was not intended to be offensive. and it was not directed at a person but at a comment .
I apologiesd to the one person who had the right to be offended. thats more courtesy than is common. as for my contributions ..thank you. Its not often people take the time to look past what bothers them and see the real contributions others make. I got over tryin to win personality contests long ago. Not every one shares our points of view.

anyway... RE: the pontiac 350. Since PY is footing the bill for this lets stay away from fords, chevy's and caddilac.

the personal data is not current

Don't sweat it. I had a few beers in me and get fired up pretty quickly. I was in the aviation field myself some years ago. CH-46E helicopter mechanic for the Flightline and Phase crew while I was in the Marine Corps. I hope my mentioning of helicopters and Marines on a Pontiac site isn't a problem either

Let's move on!

[Pontirag]

helocopters no, marines..... well I dont know. Funny you mentioned beers. I gett pretty fired up...as a rule... and before I come on board here.

Screamingchief. sorry to go to so much effort to put me on your "ingnore" list. I cant recall ever PM'ing you. I feel bad that you went to all that trouble.

I'm trying to think how I made you so angry.

Screamingchief, you are the one who sells brake parts?

East.. your still a bit new here so it will be a while before you see who knows what they are talking about. I would develope a thicker skinn when taking offence at what is said to others.

any way.. where were we? Marines, beer, ford caddleac.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

Screamingchief, you are the one who sells brake parts?

Nope,your probably thinking of scarebird.

I dont sell squat to anyone,except for the occasional odds/ends that I might sell in the parts for sale forums like most anyone/everyone else here does.

Originally Posted by Pontirag

Screamingchief. sorry to go to so much effort to put me on your "ingnore" list. I cant recall ever PM'ing you. I feel bad that you went to all that trouble.

I'm trying to think how I made you so angry.

Angry is'nt the right word for it.

Annoyed would probably be a far more appropriate word for it...

As for precisely why you're on my ignore list,let's just say that I have my reasons,and as such I dont feel remotely compelled to explain nor justify my reasoning to anyone here,and yeah,that even includes you.

Besides it takes almost no effort to do such,,,it's real easy to use that ignore deal...

By all means feel free to put me on your ignore list,wont hurt my feelings any.

I know for a fact that I'm not about to win any PY popularity contests either.

Damn sure not gonna lose any sleep over any of that sorta dreck though.

I mostly just try to stick to answering the questions as they're asked,and I try to keep my comments mostly "on topic" as much as possible these days.

But sooner or later here,,,some drama finds it's way to most everyones doorstep...

Even if you try to use tools like the ignore list avoid some of that sorta stuff.

FWIW



Bret P.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

My 350 has the big bore Felpro gaskets on it, w/ the 11 heads, I've had as much as 44 degrees total timing in it, w/o even a ping one. (I massaged EVERYTHING in this 350 before assembly, polished the stock piston tops, removed all the sharp edges in the comb. chambers.) My 11 heads have a Jim Hand port job, w/ a Cliff style ported intake, in 1991, (I have a friend that builds engines, his input, a Chevy guy, imagine that) I might do a couple of mod's (did I mention cheap) to my essentially stock 350, since all my hobby money is paying for gas, at the moment. My major thumper engines will still HAVE to wait.
Thanks again.
Jeff

IIRC those #11 heads have slightly bigger chambers than the earlier 350's had,from what I can deduce those are something like the later model '73-'74 #46 heads that were used on the 350's,or the 5C-4 or 6X-4 350 heads,so if I had to guess those are like 89'ish cc's chambers.

Pontiac rated those @ like 8.8:1 on the '70 low compression 350/400 engines,but they typically rated all engines about a .5 point higher than they really were,so that would be like 8.3:1 or so CR by most accounts.

Did you CC your heads?

Just curious.

Bret P.

[77 TRASHCAN]

I did not cc the heads, although I have the stuff to do that.

I acquired a set of 17 heads Friday. They are listed as 9.2:1, I believe for a 68 350 2 Bbl setup. Even though they are small valve, press in stud, I can deal w/ that, I have resources to improve that. The place where I bought them had a set of 46's and 11's. The chambers on those looked pretty close to the same. THe 17's looked a fuzz smaller.

I had a fellow Pontiac enthusiast w/ me.He's 62 years old, and has a lot of Pontiac knowledge
The problem w/ 350 Pontiac stuff, is nobody much uses the engine (or ever did) and retaining knowledge for those engines is not a common thing. Was surprised I found some heads close to what I was looking for.

My build (rebuild..LOL) is just a street driver. I'm going to put a 3.08 gear back in it. I'm thinking of putting a 068 cam in it, mostly because I have one, may not be the best choice. Jim Hand port job, keeping it on the conserveative side, being a 350. headers, TH 350, iron intake, Q-jet. I'm just trying to pep it up some, w/ a shallow budget....
Jeff

[Donovan]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

I did not cc the heads, although I have the stuff to do that.

I acquired a set of 17 heads Friday. They are listed as 9.2:1, I believe for a 68 350 2 Bbl setup.

Let us know what you find out... I believe you'll find that these heads are over 80cc