[MikeNoun]

They do have a NASCAR Historic Series. I think they run 5 or 6 times a year.

http://www.hscrs.com/gallery.php

It's difficult to get modern NASCAR fans interested though, because they really don't care about the make of car, or the mechanical differences between the makes. Modern NASCAR is all about selling the driver, and their image, and it's become a bit like WWF wrestling. Fans cheer for their favorite drivers, boo Kyle Busch, buy the appropriate merchandise, and they care very little about engines, chassis, or suspensions.

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

They do have a NASCAR Historic Series. I think they run 5 or 6 times a year.

http://www.hscrs.com/gallery.php

It's difficult to get modern NASCAR fans interested though, because they really don't care about the make of car, or the mechanical differences between the makes. Modern NASCAR is all about selling the driver, and their image, and it's become a bit like WWF wrestling. Fans cheer for their favorite drivers, boo Kyle Busch, buy the appropriate merchandise, and they care very little about engines, chassis, or suspensions.

Thank You, that pretty much nailed it!

[hurryinhoosier62]

John V.,

Maximum allowable displacement is 358ci. ARCA tried the V-6 formula back in the 80's. The engines were exploding like firecrackers, so they went back with the V-8s.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by John V.

With virtually unlimited budgets, we now know that you can more or less take the mystery out of racing. I think I liked it better when there was some doubt whether an engine or trans might fail. In the interest of safety (never a bad thing) we've kinda reached a point where the machinery is about bullet-proof.

Far from bullet proof...

All these driver's suffered mechanical difficulties and failed to finish the race - many of them were engine problems.

Daytona 500 - Jeff Gordon and David Stremme.

Phoenix - Marcos Ambrose, Jeff Burton, David Reutiman, Jamie McMurray, Josh Wise, Joe Nemechek, Robby Gordon, Scott Riggs and Michael McDowell.

Las Vegas - Landon Cassill, Michael McDowell, Travis Kvapil, Josh Wise, Joe Nemechek and JJ Yeley.

While some of the teams represented above are low budget teams (higher chance of failure), Jeff Gordon, Marcos Ambrose, Jeff Burton, David Reutiman and Jamie McMurray are all driving for pretty decent teams.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 60man

X2 on that....Sit on front row of short track....watch the drag race off the corners ...carring the front wheel...

About the same as watching a 12 second car and then watch a 9 second car...big difference..but on TV....not much difference...

You mean something like this...



Or this...



Like Gulliver said - I'm not an average fan... But then, average fans don't get to be as close to the racing action as I was when I took those shots...

[hurryinhoosier62]

Nothing like sprint cars and modifieds on dirt!! With the new EFI rule, you're going to see more engine failures until all the teams work the "bugs" out of the systems.

[Bob Hall]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Malibu.

I've seen stuff floating in a cesspool that looks better than that.
/and I'm a chevy fan.

[MikeNoun]

In my opinion, these are flat out some of the coolest looking cars on any track.

[NBF823]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

They do have a NASCAR Historic Series. I think they run 5 or 6 times a year.

http://www.hscrs.com/gallery.php

It's difficult to get modern NASCAR fans interested though, because they really don't care about the make of car, or the mechanical differences between the makes. Modern NASCAR is all about selling the driver, and their image, and it's become a bit like WWF wrestling. Fans cheer for their favorite drivers, boo Kyle Busch, buy the appropriate merchandise, and they care very little about engines, chassis, or suspensions.

I think that pretty much sums it up. I think, though many car guys watch NASCAR, and even I try to get glimpses of the technology they're using, Nascar is a fan sport, not so much of a car-guy sport. If I took all of the Nascar fans I know around me; I know that they don't have project cars, most probably don't even know how to drive a manual, and most are going to watch the Stanley cup, even though they can't skate, and watch the super bowl, even though many haven't played football since the highschool gym teacher scheduled it.

My local machinist runs a sprint car. Awesome ride, great show at the track. I love to look at that thing and swipe as many ideas as I can, Like shocks that can be run upsidedown to lower the unsprung weight. It's funny to listen to him try to get drivers for it - "When they have enough sense not to wreck it, they have enough sense not to get in it!"

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

In my opinion, these are flat out some of the coolest looking cars on any track.

Another one, just for you...

[fiedlerh]

Used to be every high school kid knew the basics of how cars worked. Now the NASCAR fan sites have embarrassingly dumb questions.

[sixgunsblazing]

I miss the mid 70's-late 80's NASCAR rides, I'm jonesing to build a mid 70's NASCAR style street car, slammed, fat tires, loud and bright.

[fasteddy]

I grew up as a sprint car fan. No wings in the 60s just flying dirt, awesome noise and great racing. It is so much faster now--still awesome IMO.

[ho428]

Rather than watch Sponsor-Car, this is my idea of a well spent Sunday afternoon.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

Winning or not ; best lookin car ever ran there -

That's what I'm talking about!

"Pure Pontiac - none of that corporate business"

Now where have I seen that before!!!??

[Alvin]

Funny - Why no mention here of another obvious (to me) fan difference:

NASCAR High Speed (Tri) Ovals or Short Tracks Races: Which are your favorites?

Personally; when I was a kid, I used to enjoy going to and watching the dirt racers. Last dirt races I attended were over a decade ago, and they were fun to watch for a few heats, but got tired of the grit in my teeth. I equate those tracks more to the Paved short track races and find them now boring.

However: Also, when I was a kid learning how to drive, (my 1968 New Yorker 440cid, and 1956 Cadillac Deville, 1972 Sport Fury, and later my 1973 Malibu) my best friends and I would drive the back dirt and gravel roads pushing the limits making our cars do controlled slides, drifts and fishtails. We would do the same on the back roads in the snow and ice covered 1 ½ lane roads…pushing the limits of traction and adhesion more often than not going off into the snow drifts; digging the cars out and doing it all over again. Crazy kids? You bet your a$$, but we learned how to really drive past the limits in cars that were never engineered to be pushed and tortured like “we fine young men” were pushing them. I can tell you that my New Yorker was nicknamed by me “The Land Yacht” and the speedo saw more 120mph time than “normal speeds”. It was at these times that I really learned how to drive, and gained the knowledge and respect for control at the limits. After digging out a vehicle from the mud, snow and ice a few times, you get the picture that your equipment holds up longer in a cleaner environment like asphalt or concrete. Although it’s much less forgiving than dirt when you F up!

So IMO I understand the thrill of dirt racing and short tracks, but prefer…the hi-speed paved track races; like Daytona, Talladega, Darlington, Texas, etc.

That was another appeal to me for Drag Racing: The pure speed, adrenalin, and relative cleanliness of the cars, crews and tracks racing on the pavement.

I for one will admit that I enjoy the thrill of close competition, and CRASHES that “…and they walked away” from, and “way out there” personalities like A.J. Foyt for example. But then I’m just old school…and could care less what striping package is on the latest “bar of soap” car body.

Really exciting to see people like F1 drivers racing in the rain – wow what a novelty! And, controlled NASCAR sideways slides at 190+mph were the driver gets the out of control back in shape, and weird series like the Truck races…because they almost look like something that I can relate to…a vehicle that I can drive on the street…like an F-150, Silverado, etc. That is what all motor sports are drifting away from IMO: How the average fan can relate with what is in there driveway or garage vs. what they see on the track. Kinda like a modern version of this:

Originally Posted by Alvin

Can you see a Pontiac there!!!? Oh Yeah!!!!!!!!

So, not so sure what makes a Chevy a Chevy in modern Nascar…but I can relate to that Pontiac shown above as we have one in our garage.

NASCAR High Speed (Tri) Ovals or Short Tracks Races: Which are your favorites?

[Gulliver]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Gulliver,

I,too, prefer to watch races in person, but I'll make a bet with you. A six-pack of your favorite beer says you can't guess the speed within 5mph or laptime within 5secs WITHOUT a stop watch.

No, you're right- I couldn't guess it within 5mph...

But, having grown up an hour from Talladega, I didn't miss either of the 2 races per year there for many, many seasons. Too bad the cars are slower now. Last time I went was '06, I think. A band I was touring with played the Sat. nite show on the infield with .38 Special. The infield party was spectacular, Sunday's race was a total bore..

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

In my opinion, these are flat out some of the coolest looking cars on any track.

Finally something I agree with on this thread. These cars are the most volatile cars in oval racing, too bad with a 410 Cu in limit there are no Pontiac powered ones. 1375 lbs with driver and almost 900 HP make for a wild ride as well as a spectacle to watch. If you come home from the races without some of the track sticking to ya, ya got cheated. Asphalt is for getting to the races, dirt's for racin on!!!!
'
My favorite form of racing head and shoulders over anything else. Funny thing is no matter what's under the hood, they all have virtually the same bodies on them too, boring, I hardly think so....................................

[Alvin]

Agree to disagree here. Example: IMO - When watching a Pro Drag race you CAN tell a difference in ET down to the thousandth of a second with people in the stands commenting “that was a fast run!” before the read-outs for the run flash on the top-end. So tenths, hundredths, and thousands of a second perception and equal mph (aka: Speed) YOU CAN SEE speed and et IMO. Happens all of the time.

IMO: Oval Sprint Dirt, while quaint for a few laps, seemingly almost always turns into a cart-wheeling endo’s into the catch fence extravaganza. Kinser’s dominance made this interesting in the past. And even with Smoke @ Eldora, not something that I have watched on TV in recent years more than a couple times. And not a draw for me.

Heck, why not hang those goofy Sprint Car wings onto a modern COT and call it “Progress”. Now if Nascar and Sprint Cars raced in the rain like I’m driving in today (like Road Racing, Rally & F1) now THAT would certainly be something.

This thread has devolved into not just the old “Roundy Rounders vs. Drag Guys” but into a “Dirt Track vs. Paved Track”…”Do it in the Dirt” is better, etc.
If you like dirt, and small tracks more power to you. Obviously if you have invested Blood, Sweat, Tears and $ in a dirt project that’s YOUR Bag. Kudos to you, go for it.

So, like the original topic of this thread: “When NASCAR Mattered” for me was the Hi Speed Super Speedways with “Stock Appearing” Production cars on pavement WAS when NASCAR mattered.

[ho428]

Best NASCAR race I've seen in years was the Nationwide race at Road America.
They should all do more road courses.