[OVERULD]

Josie Cotton! Shaaa-Wiiiiingggg!!! Love that video and the low camera angles. Long live bubblegum!

BJ

[2manyT/A'S]

Heard a vicious rumor that there was an IRON headed HO (72) running 10's there late last month...

Red Formula? with 72 HO heads......& a Q-jet?

Anybody here know the story on it?

Wasn't real stock........on the bottle,maybe?

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by OVERULD

Josie Cotton! Shaaa-Wiiiiingggg!!! Love that video and the low camera angles. Long live bubblegum!

BJ

From an early 80's perspective,it doesn't get any better...........GREAT vid,song AND singer!

[RicksGTO]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

Heard a vicious rumor that there was an IRON headed HO (72) running 10's there late last month...

Red Formula? with 72 HO heads......& a Q-jet?

Anybody here know the story on it?

Wasn't real stock........on the bottle,maybe?

saw an entry on the raceway results from their website that lists a '72 Firebird running a 10.908 @ 113 on Sept. 23rd. Brad Burton of Kirkland, WA
Here is a video of his car running, he is possibly a PY member too. Go to 17:40 on the video to see his car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqkJLbxlXSI

Here is an article on the cars and his family:
http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=176861

.

[165th]

Here's some progress pictures of the business end of my '72 455HO WD going together.

Engine has 67,000 original documented miles and is still standard bore after the freshening up (.005" over after hone). Pistons are Diamond custom cut and peeking out of the bore 0.015". Jim says this is good.

Jim Robertson from these Forums is building this engine.

We have a dyno date set for December 2.

Fun Fun!

[Formulabruce]

That will improve CR some, looks sweet!

[bird72]

Thinking of getting my 72 HO heads done for use in my Formula...

Any recomendations on anyone good with prepping these heads?

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by bird72

Thinking of getting my 72 HO heads done for use in my Formula...

Any recomendations on anyone good with prepping these heads?

SD Performance is the place to go if you are wanting MAX flow/HP.....

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by bird72

Thinking of getting my 72 HO heads done for use in my Formula...

Any recomendations on anyone good with prepping these heads?

do not get them milled, or angle milled, they do NOT warp, so thats no excuse, do you really need them hogged out? once they get ground or bored, it cannot be reversed..

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by bird72

Thinking of getting my 72 HO heads done for use in my Formula...

Any recomendations on anyone good with prepping these heads?

I am really suprised no one has mentioned Butler Performance. Butler only works on Pontiacs,has for 3 generations of Butlers. I would bet large that they port more Pontiac heads monthly than any single shop in the entire US. No one knows Pontiac engine componants as well as Butler hands down.. They are not flashy and seem to rarely end up in magazines, which is fine in my book. There work is second to none and they are as honest and fair priced as you will get.. I recall asking them about porting my 197 heads and was told they would rather not mess up a perfectly good set of heads. When was the l;ast time you had a shop turn down a $500++ job? I would make sure you call Butler and sppeak with them before you have anyone else touch your HO heads..

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by bird72

Thinking of getting my 72 HO heads done for use in my Formula...

Any recomendations on anyone good with prepping these heads?

I really think just a good clean up,deburring and matching ports is all you need. As someone has already stated,once you port them youcannot goback. Most round port heads were fine out of the box.. ANyway, call Butler..

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by bird72

Thinking of getting my 72 HO heads done for use in my Formula...

Any recomendations on anyone good with prepping these heads?

I really think just a good clean up,deburring and matching ports is all you need. As someone has already stated,once you port them youcannot goback. Most round port heads were fine out of the box.. Anyway, call Butler..

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

I am really suprised no one has mentioned Butler Performance. Butler only works on Pontiacs,has for 3 generations of Butlers. I would bet large that they port more Pontiac heads monthly than any single shop in the entire US. No one knows Pontiac engine componants as well as Butler hands down.. They are not flashy and seem to rarely end up in magazines, which is fine in my book. There work is second to none and they are as honest and fair priced as you will get.. I recall asking them about porting my 197 heads and was told they would rather not mess up a perfectly good set of heads. When was the l;ast time you had a shop turn down a $500++ job? I would make sure you call Butler and sppeak with them before you have anyone else touch your HO heads..

Sounds like excellent advice!

[2manyT/A'S]

Thought I heard somewhere that Butler was farming his head work out to SD???

Personally I don't think I'd "hogg them out" either......but if somebody is going to do it,he'd do it RIGHT!

[charles bledsoe]

I have a 72 455 HO Formula and found out that the block is not original to the car. The block is actualy a 73 2 bolt main and was put in by the dealer under warranty work. The dealer even sprayed the engine the darker blue paint i guess showing it was brought up to emmision standards. Parts of the engine still have the lighter blue paint, these areas i guess were hard to reach when the engine was repainted. Everything else but the distributor is numbers matching. I'm guessing that the distributor was changed out during the early 80's due to convenience? The car has a Pontiac 301 distributor on it.

I contacted Butler and asked if they had a 72 replacement block or could the one I have be machined to accept the 4 bolt caps. I was told to leave it alone, that it wouldn't make that much of a difference, and that the cost outweighs the benefit. I don't ever plan on racing the car, but one day someone will want to sell it and would be looking at re-sale value. Just looking for advice from the experts!
Thanks.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by charles bledsoe

I have a 72 455 HO Formula and found out that the block is not original to the car. The block is actualy a 73 2 bolt main and was put in by the dealer under warranty work. The dealer even sprayed the engine the darker blue paint i guess showing it was brought up to emmision standards. Parts of the engine still have the lighter blue paint, these areas i guess were hard to reach when the engine was repainted. Everything else but the distributor is numbers matching. I'm guessing that the distributor was changed out during the early 80's due to convenience? The car has a Pontiac 301 distributor on it.

I contacted Butler and asked if they had a 72 replacement block or could the one I have be machined to accept the 4 bolt caps. I was told to leave it alone, that it wouldn't make that much of a difference, and that the cost outweighs the benefit. I don't ever plan on racing the car, but one day someone will want to sell it and would be looking at re-sale value. Just looking for advice from the experts!
Thanks.

If you check your build sheet OR PHS you will likely find that it came with K65 Unitized Ignition.........(I believe it was standard equipment in ALL LS5 72 Formula's)

This was the forerunner to HEI & there were NEVER any aftermarket parts available for it,wires included.

They were commonly swapped out (for an HEI or standard points style distributor) when ANY replacement parts were required,as GM replacement parts were quite expensive,back in the day....

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by charles bledsoe

I have a 72 455 HO Formula and found out that the block is not original to the car. The block is actualy a 73 2 bolt main and was put in by the dealer under warranty work. The dealer even sprayed the engine the darker blue paint i guess showing it was brought up to emmision standards. Parts of the engine still have the lighter blue paint, these areas i guess were hard to reach when the engine was repainted. Everything else but the distributor is numbers matching. I'm guessing that the distributor was changed out during the early 80's due to convenience? The car has a Pontiac 301 distributor on it.

I contacted Butler and asked if they had a 72 replacement block or could the one I have be machined to accept the 4 bolt caps. I was told to leave it alone, that it wouldn't make that much of a difference, and that the cost outweighs the benefit. I don't ever plan on racing the car, but one day someone will want to sell it and would be looking at re-sale value. Just looking for advice from the experts!
Thanks.

there is a 72 block FS in classifieds on this board, its not an HO. If your block was warranty, it will not have any serial number, which makes it GM approved, your cars engine... many 4 bolt blocks only ran 2 bolt caps FYI.

[T/A Fanatic]

With pistons out of the deck by 0.015", there is not much room for error. Spin a bearing and you may be saying goodby to the piston, the head, etc., depending on the rpm (assuming you use a standard 0.039" crushed gasket). In my case, my pistons stuck out about 0.010 to 0.012", and I had them all cut 0.010" to get them flush with the deck. I guess I just wanted more insurance.

Alan

[Jim Robertson]

Thanks to 165th (Greg) for sending his numbers engine to us for a freshening. We are proceeding through the build and are planning to run many original parts. A few things that may apply to your build/restoration below:
This block had some small rust pits in two cylinders. The corrosion was isolated to very near the top of the cylinder wall, but to remove the flaws entirely would have taken a +.060" and possibly as much as .100" overbore. The location of the pits was very near the uppermost travel of top ring. The original material of the block was saved by simply ordering a custom piston with the top ring land placed .250" below standard Pontiac locations. 2nd ring and oil ring were moved down slightly as well. Now the uppermost travel of the top ring stays out of the flaws allowing full performance and all original iron in the bores. We simply torque plate honed the block to ensure bores were round and ordered pistons that bore size. Therefore this block, even though it has been "into" before, is still just a tick over standard bore. :-)

Do not send your crank to just anyone. Spend the money for accurate machine work and a good crank guy is difficult to find...at least in West Texas. When we tore this one down it had hurt the mains very likely due to a clearance issue. If you have any work done always check both the front and rear diameter of every journal as taper can creep in causing inaccurate/inconsistent clearances. Highly recommend you do not send your HO or any Pontiac for that matter to just any rebuilder (i.e. butcher). There are some great folks that specialize.

No worries on the piston/deck clearance as we are running a .055" crushed gasket. .040" clear will work great with the parts selection and the intended use of this one.

Accurate and deliberate machining/tolerances contribute greatly to the performance. There are known reasons these cars ran 14s in the quarter in 1971-2 and now run in the 10s and 11s with the same basic equipment.

Agree with the posts about not porting original heads. If engine is built correctly 400hp can be achieved with the unported heads. Original block, crank, intake and carb are all able to support that number. A good valve job will pick up an unported intake port 40 cfm over stock flow numbers. Combine with a very mild but up to date lobe designs and you have a very fast street ride. If you need more than 400HP call me.

Sorry for the long post but felt compelled to present this,
Jim

RACE
Home of the 800HP Iron Dports
www.racev8s.com

P.S. Greg's stripe kits are phenomenal. A set is going on my 72 TA race car now.

[Jim Robertson]

Thanks to 165th (Greg) for sending his numbers engine to us for a freshening. We are proceeding through the build and are planning to run many original parts. A few things that may apply to your build/restoration below:
This block had some small rust pits in two cylinders. The corrosion was isolated to very near the top of the cylinder wall, but to remove the flaws entirely would have taken a +.060" and possibly as much as .100" overbore. The location of the pits was very near the uppermost travel of top ring. The original material of the block was saved by simply ordering a custom piston with the top ring land placed .250" below standard Pontiac locations. 2nd ring and oil ring were moved down slightly as well. Now the uppermost travel of the top ring stays out of the flaws allowing full performance and all original iron in the bores. We simply torque plate honed the block to ensure bores were round and ordered pistons that bore size. Therefore this block, even though it has been "into" before, is still just a tick over standard bore. :-)

Do not send your crank to just anyone. Spend the money for accurate machine work and a good crank guy is difficult to find...at least in West Texas. When we tore this one down it had hurt the mains very likely due to a clearance issue. If you have any work done always check both the front and rear diameter of every journal as taper can creep in causing inaccurate/inconsistent clearances. Highly recommend you do not send your HO or any Pontiac for that matter to just any rebuilder (i.e. butcher). There are some great folks that specialize.

No worries on the piston/deck clearance as we are running a .055" crushed gasket. .040" clear will work great with the parts selection and the intended use of this one.

Accurate and deliberate machining/tolerances contribute greatly to the performance. There are known reasons these cars ran 14s in the quarter in 1971-2 and now run in the 10s and 11s with the same basic equipment.

Agree with the posts about not porting original heads. If engine is built correctly 400hp can be achieved with the unported heads. Original block, crank, intake and carb are all able to support that number. A good valve job will pick up an unported intake port 40 cfm over stock flow numbers. Combine with a very mild but up to date lobe designs and you have a very fast street ride. If you need more than 400HP call me.

Sorry for the long post but felt compelled to present this,
Jim

RACE
Home of the 800HP Iron Dports
www.racev8s.com

P.S. Greg's stripe kits are phenomenal. A set is going on my 72 TA race car now.