[bluebird455]

Nice. I think this is it's third or fourth appearance on ebay. was asking 85k or 95k first time around. Eventually some collector will pay what he's asking.

Here's one I really like:
http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/sit...d-455-4-speed/

Nice bit of history on it.

[Larry Navarro]

That car once belonged to Mark Walters. Pretty quick car during the old Musclecar Nationals days. I believe Mark had installed a 4.10 gearset and ran consistant 13.0's.

[bluebird455]

13.05 in the Pure Stock Drags 20 years ago, that's pretty damn good. I wonder how close to factory stock it was.

[Larry Navarro]

I had talked to Mark back in the mid-90's about his car when he had it for sale. The engine had the H-O racing cam "HC62", which is the same as the HC02 but with the small distributor gear casting core, and just about all the trick parts from H-O for tuning the dist. & q-jet. It may have had tri-y headers too but I can't recall.

[bluebird455]

Very nice. Any idea what the compression was? close to stock? 75k seems reasonable compare to all the other 74 sd455 4speed I've seen for 80-100k.

[Larry Navarro]

I think the compression was close to original.
Back in those days of the original Musclecar Nat's, there were several different "stock" classes and allowed modifications within guidelines of rules.
Nowadays you have the "pure stock" and "stock appearing" events which I believe were started by those individuals who competed 20 yrs ago.

[Skip Fix]

I remember the red SD that ran in the stock classes, won class a few times. I ran Top Stock that allowed more mods, I forgot the rules for stock but pretty sure no headers for sure no intake or carb changes. He did well with it.

For Top Stock and pretty sure Stock class winners got P&G'd to check for true cubic inches. They could make you pull a head if you got protested and it would have to be stock specs as per NHRA. Checked carb venturi size and even gas density one year.

One black 61 Pontiac(Ted Robb?) had to come with heads off to one race. One Buick guy got caught with aluminum rods.-And all for just a trophy ansd maybe $50 contingency!

[bluebird455]

That's pretty good for 20 years ago, and not being allowed to change intake, exhaust and carb, especialy if the compression remained close to factory.

[superdutybob]

The car did have 4.10 gears in the back. That car was bought from Mark Walters by Dick Winkles. Dick gave it a good clean up and underhood detail that you see today. It took 1st at the T/A Nationals as well as the Pontiac TriPower Nationals at Norwalk. It's amazing how these cars get around. How did it ever end up in Canada?

[rwinkles]

Originally Posted by superdutybob

The car did have 4.10 gears in the back. That car was bought from Mark Walters by Dick Winkles. Dick gave it a good clean up and underhood detail that you see today. It took 1st at the T/A Nationals as well as the Pontiac TriPower Nationals at Norwalk. It's amazing how these cars get around. How did it ever end up in Canada?

Actually...that car took a 2nd and a 3rd at the T/A Nationals, my other SD 4-speed (black interior) took 1st. I loved that car and wished I had sold the other. That car is a great driver!

[bluebird455]

It sure looks nice, and it's Pure Stock Racing history sure make it appealing.

[Larry Navarro]

Hey gang, I'm posting here since there seems to be a majority of folks who own or have owned SD trans ams that have been restored.
My question revolves around the costs of quality paint work.
It has been suggested to me that prices between $20-30K for show quality finishes are not uncommon.
Is this type of figure including body work where the sheet metal is replaced because of rot or damage from a wreck?
I can't seem to fathom that a car which retains original, rust-free sheet metal needing minimal prep would justify the noted figures.
I'm very familiar with paint & body work as I have painted three vehicles in the last 25 yrs, two of which garnered an "editors choice" and 1st place at Super Chevy events.
My most recent was a '78 trans am that I performed a complete color change from artic white to admiralty blue. This car had a straight body but needed a lower patch panel at the rear quarter.
Although this car wasn't intended to be a show piece, I performed the work as if it were, since I planned on selling the vehicle anyway.
I spent about 60 hrs labor in prepping the body and painted the car in my "spray booth" just as I have done in the past with the show cars previously mentioned.
Folks down here in Houston are familiar with my work so there's no denying what I describe in this post.
I only mention this just so folks who reply to this thread are aware that I'm not totally out of touch (or maybe I am) with paint & body services.
So again, Is this type of figure including body work where the sheet metal is replaced because of rot or damage from a wreck? Were the cars a "basket case"?

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

It has been suggested to me that prices between $20-30K for show quality finishes are not uncommon.

Yep!

[njsteve]

Larry,
Sadly a lot of the costs (in my experience) were due to the car(s) being sentenced to "body shop prison" where a car that seemingly needs little, was nickle and dimed by the hour, year after year like the bodyman was my salaried employee. There was over 50k into the body on the 72 T/A and you all witnessed what it needed and what it went through.

You may be able to get it done with a large percentage of your own sweat equity since are experienced at body/paint work. Also keep in mind how expensive paint and material have become. Even with all your work, I still think you're looking at $15-20k.

Are you going to strip off the existing finish? That's a bunch of labor hours right there. The real major labor involved is the difference in the body when it comes to dead-on straightness and panel gap from panel to panel. You can spend months just block sanding to get the body lines perfect. A major body faux pas on these cars is the subtle lower body line that a lot of the "get 'er done" body guys with no F body experience, completely eradicate when they bondo over it and make it flat.

Paint it in single stage. Dont do a clear coat- I like the original type finish where the car shines but is not super glossy like a modern car.

You are painting it for me, right? :-)

[Larry Navarro]

Boy I think these shops are taking customers for a ride.
I'm beginning to think I should give up my day job and paint cars.

[njsteve]

Tell you what, you can paint my black car first for practice, and when its done, I'll leave it as a deposit on your red car. ;-)

[Larry Navarro]

No practice required.
Besides, I want an LS6 car.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Larry,

Paint it in single stage. Dont do a clear coat- I like the original type finish where the car shines but is not super glossy like a modern car.

You are painting it for me, right? :-)

No offense to Steve, but this is bad advice. You can do a 2 stage or 3, with some gloss reducing additives to emulate Lacquer. I had to do this on a 68 Camaro all original car. Most people pay for paint, they want shine, but obviously thats not original, really. Also the panels on our cars did NOT fit well from the factory.
I would stay Away from single stage ( cant repair well at all)
and also stay away from the "cheap" or repair panel base clear coats ( omni coat )
DO not EVER use a WATER born paint. I know its normal in California, but its sucks, its not durrable.
Im sure you have looked at the Paint options, Larry.
A stripped out shell, that needs a quarter patch, and a complete paint strip, and jam, and blocking etc and a "loose assemble" after paint is 15K around here and will get you a number #2 job, orange peel sanded out and buffed.
Things that make your body/paint expenses go UP
1. interior or any dissasembly of it
2. Car in a million pieces at arrival
3. any lights, chrome etc on the car, One MUST take the car apart ( better for the bolts etc too)
Cut costs more? Strip the roof, trunk, INSIDE the trunk, do your own inners, Jam your own car and have them paint car with sponges , if assembled ( not show cars)
$ 450 bucks a day is the norm ,not including supplies and "body shops" HATE assembly, so dont pay them to do it..
my 2 cents based on alot of experience with body shops, and I worked at one too.
what paint do I like? Matin Senour Tech base system ( Sherwin Williams, or Napa)
PPG epoxy is hard to beat.. under it , Not dishing the Dupont ... or HOC..
rant off back to finding car parts..

[Larry Navarro]

In the past, I've had great results with PPG acrylic enamel "DAU" with "DXR" hardener. Good stuff and lays down well.
I used Sherwin 2-stage on '78 t/a. I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.

[njsteve]

No offense taken. Im a fan of the old school look.

So if you used Martin Senour with a gloss reducer would that then be called a "Martin Sheen"?

;-p