[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

12/12.. If you were a mechanic, the good old days. ...

So then if I use this post;

Originally Posted by Kenth

As long as Pontiac needed Service Replacement blocks for 1970 RA-engines they they drilled and tapped later than 1970 production blocks for use of 4-bolt mains. ...

... that would logically mean that service replacement 1970 blocks would have only been needed through to early 1972 at the latest - right?

Just curious.

['ol Pinion head]

my observation, from owning several fitted SR blocks, & looking at many more, SR 9799915 blocks were cast up into (at least) early 1973.

['ol Pinion head]

Another thing, a block isn't considered a 4 bolt block, unless it came from the factory fitted with 4 bolt caps. Doesn't matter what own block it is.

[unruhjonny]

that's cool with me...

[tom s]

AS OPH said,if it did not come with 4 bolts caps it is a 2 bolt block.Tom

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

12/12.. If you were a mechanic, the good old days.
No nav screens, tire pressure warning, accident avoidance or 3000 body, trans, abs or engine codes.

Drivers wanted.

It was kind of the good old days from a technical standpoint. I was a line mechanic at a medium size Pontiac dealer. They sold 30-40 cars a month. I remember distinctly replacing 13 Oil pan gaskets/rear main seals in one week at the dealer. The job paid just over 4 hours and I could do 2 in a day not killing myself. Can you imagine oil leaks like that on a new car today? The Pontiacs were terrible leakers from the 4 bolt valve covers to the cork oil pan gaskets and the rope seals, valley gasket leaks you name it. But it wasn't just Pontiac. Sealing technology has come a long, long way in 50 years. Quality control was really spotty in those days. The Turbo Trans Am that I Pre-delivered and was smoking and missing like crazy. It made it all the way to my dealer with 7 pistons in the engine!! No, I am not making this up. It was a different time.

[Blued and Painted]

Yes, the sealing of the engines has greatly improved. The black streak down the middle of the roadways has disappeared. The chevy's would normally get past the 12/12 before the vcg's would shrink up. Our Pontiacs still take allot of effort to keep dry.

For the young guy's, back then there were service stations. In a couple of minutes, You could get gas, have all your fluids topped off, tires aired up, and the windshield cleaned without leaving your vehicle. Occasionally having a quart of oil added was the norm.

Somewhere around the mid 90's the dealers figured out they could raise the labor rate per hour, but cut labor times on customer pay operations. Not much change in price to the customer, but the mechanic got the shaft.

I switched to fleet work.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

Yes, the sealing of the engines has greatly improved. The black streak down the middle of the roadways has disappeared. The chevy's would normally get past the 12/12 before the vcg's would shrink up. Our Pontiacs still take allot of effort to keep dry.

For the young guy's, back then there were service stations. In a couple of minutes, You could get gas, have all your fluids topped off, tires aired up, and the windshield cleaned without leaving your vehicle. Occasionally having a quart of oil added was the norm.

Somewhere around the mid 90's the dealers figured out they could raise the labor rate per hour, but cut labor times on customer pay operations. Not much change in price to the customer, but the mechanic got the shaft.

I switched to fleet work.

A good mechanic (and a honest dealer and service manager who would authorize and pay for that work) could make a good living the the 70s. Most could beat the rate for the job and still have coffee time.

The Trans Guys vs the Engine Guys seemed to make the most money for the work required. Deal was the GOOD engine guy hardly ever had a "come-back" whereas the Trans Guy was fast and made money but typically he did the job over at least 50% of the time.

The 90s were much worse FOR EVERYTHING.

Tom V.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

It was kind of the good old days from a technical standpoint. I was a line mechanic at a medium size Pontiac dealer. They sold 30-40 cars a month. I remember distinctly replacing 13 Oil pan gaskets/rear main seals in one week at the dealer. The job paid just over 4 hours and I could do 2 in a day not killing myself. Can you imagine oil leaks like that on a new car today? The Pontiacs were terrible leakers from the 4 bolt valve covers to the cork oil pan gaskets and the rope seals, valley gasket leaks you name it. But it wasn't just Pontiac. Sealing technology has come a long, long way in 50 years. Quality control was really spotty in those days. The Turbo Trans Am that I Pre-delivered and was smoking and missing like crazy. It made it all the way to my dealer with 7 pistons in the engine!! No, I am not making this up. It was a different time.

Sealing technology for the older engines (including our Pontiacs) has also improved. I used the one piece, reusable pan gasket on mine, as well as the graphite rear main seal- no more seepage. I have worked on all makes of cars since the early '80s and one brand of car that still seems to have trouble with leaks and burning oil) is Mitsubishi. You used to be able to tell if a Chrysler product in the '80s, '90s, or '00s had the Mitsubishi engine if you saw oil puffing out of the tailpipe LOL. Chrysler's in house engines were all pretty good designs that didn't tend to burn and leak oil like those.

[mgarblik]

No argument here. The one piece oil pan gasket and the Viton rear seals have done wonders for our old Indians. Biggest change I have seen dealership technicians is the % split between labor charged and technician pay. When I started, a senior top technician would get 50% of the labor rate, about $30.00 a flat rate hour in the early 80's. Today, at $120.00 charged an hour, a top technician may make $40.00. Still good money, but a large % reduction from 30 years ago. Also, as mentioned, it is very difficult to turn 40 flat rate hours in 40 clock hours and do a complete, high quality job. Most of the technicians who really care, and are really good, turn 35-40 hours a week.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

No argument here. The one piece oil pan gasket and the Viton rear seals have done wonders for our old Indians. Biggest change I have seen dealership technicians is the % split between labor charged and technician pay. When I started, a senior top technician would get 50% of the labor rate, about $30.00 a flat rate hour in the early 80's. Today, at $120.00 charged an hour, a top technician may make $40.00. Still good money, but a large % reduction from 30 years ago. Also, as mentioned, it is very difficult to turn 40 flat rate hours in 40 clock hours and do a complete, high quality job. Most of the technicians who really care, and are really good, turn 35-40 hours a week.

X2. I actually care a lot about what I do, and because of that I left a dealer about 15 years ago where they were pushing "flushes" and other nonsense that people really didn't need. People there that didn't care, would recommend these things on every single vehicle that came in, would "rake it in" giving the people who were there to actually fix stuff a bad name. Where I am at now, a lot of times I'll actually adjust the time on things like Mitchell and All data down, because they will call for a very large amount of time to do some things. And other things, they give you too little time. I now work for a small independent shop where the boss works with us to try to keep us (and the customer) from getting the short end of the stick. He also passes out the work evenly, which is another good thing. It is still hard to make good time on some jobs though. The worst problems are intermittent "noises" and electrical problems. Too many things pass through a "Body Control Module" these days that sometimes makes even a simple diagnosis on an inoperative horn a proposition that can take several hours.

[Tom Vaught]

Been a while but I think the typical 2015 Vehicle from my company had 7 computers on board. Some were stand along and some were interface computers. The engine and trans talk to each other, the theft system is standalone for the most part. Same deal for the climate control stuff. Not sure about the automated parking stuff.

You get the idea.

Tom V.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

I'm 48, went to school thru Ford Motor Co. Worked in a dealership doing trannys and electronics work mostly, right out of school in the late 80's, early 90's. Made great $, and rarely, if ever did yoyo work (comebacks). I was flat rate, but I was thoural. I have not worked in the automotive industry for the last 17 years.
I got the opportunity (out of necessity) to use a state of the art Snap On scan tool system on my late model Taurus to diagnose an intermittent problem. This stuff may intimidate some, but it is like a dream come true for me. Beats a 2 digit # code from a red box with one button on it any day! Heck, my car was dead out in the cold lot and I was pulling info from all the computers in the nice warm garage, via bluetooth. With wiring diagrams and diagnostic routines on the unit, not in a book laying somewhere in the shop. I made more money with my pen than I ever did with my tools. Learning to put your work to print is what makes you $ working flat rate, not bending wrenches.
I had a great teacher!
Pre Delivery Inspection was the gravy work indeed!

[Blued and Painted]

Good to see the teck's checking in. Big hug to the engineers and designers, but occasionally should be run out of town on a rail.
Not related// One of my first pet peeves was the keyed wheel covers. Starting in independent shops where key sets were not practical (per owner) for all brands and aftermarket covers. Finding the Key was like a treasure hunt on Oak Island, or finding the Dead Sea Scrolls.
So with a Mitchel labor manual, i searched for extra time for locking wheel covers. No luck searching Cadillac, Buick, or Olds. Finally found 2 tenths under of all things, the lowly Chevette. Oh Snap!!