[ta man]

New shortblock is hardblocked,I want to regulate the oil temperature.My plan is ..Blockoff plate on block with two fittings,10 an to remote filter,10an to thermostat,10 an line to the cooler,10 an line back to thermostat,10 an line back to block.At startup until the oil reaches a preset temp oil flows from block to filter to thermostat and back to block.Any issues or products I should stay away from?

[HWYSTR455]

I've been back and forth on this, considering what to do, and, in the end, I chose not to complicate things.

There's so much to consider to do this right, it's not something you can't do without deep thought. Things like line size, types of fittings, thermostat or not, where to place the stat, sender type and location, drain back concerns, types of filters to use, the list goes on.

You really need to determine IF you actually need it, and if for when you're targeting cooling, if that period of time will actually cause issues. You have to weigh the benefits against the risks and make a choice.

There's actually very few scenarios that call for engine oil cooling. One is circuit/road racing, and off shore racing is another. Not many times will there be a need for it in drag racing, or dual duty use.

Some argue that oil temps are actually cooler when you fill half way (depends who you ask). Water temps are certainly cooler, usually by 10-15 degrees. I ran a half filled block on the street, and beat it to the likes that would challenge road course events. On those occasions, I would always change the oil after, and never found discoloration or other noticeable issues. Personal experience/grain of salt.

If you do chose to go that direction, one thing to start with is the block plate itself, how it fits, stand off, and transitions. Many say that the block itself needs to have oil passages modified, to allow for a smoother flow path.

Another thing is, is the header tube too close to allow for proper clearance of the fittings? I mocked up a setup in my 'bird, and the AN fittings came so close to the header, the purpose of the cooler would have probably defeated. Smaller size or a tight radius fitting would restrict the flow, so not an option.

Filters and filter housings. If you defeat the OE filter housing, your bypass goes away. So, you generally want an effective bypass in the filter. And that's generally not going to be covered in an off the shelf filter. Filter mounts/housing, those you need to be concerned with construction, internal flow paths, restrictions, size, etc. Can't run a cheap one, like a trans-dapt aluminum dual one, believe me, I looked at those, they are junk, not to mention it takes a lot of clean up just to make them usable. They can crack, leak at threads, and other typical stuff of cheap parts.

Then there's the capacity of the system, and drain back. Like, you run 10AN lines, dual 'school bus' filters, when you park the thing and shut it off, drain back can fill the pan, and cause leaks. And how long does it take to get psi to the end of the oil tract? Your pump is only going to move X, and you're adding a Lincoln tunnel between it and that last fitting that squirts you dizzy gear.

My suggestion would be to start by running an oil temp gauge, and see what your actual temps are, under driving conditions you're concerned that the temp would climb. If it's borderline, try running a different oil, like a syn or blend, see if that helps. IMO, better to try to control it with other methods before throwing the kitchen sink at it.

.

[ta man]

Thanks for the reply,your thoughts really reflected many of my ideas and concerns.A oil temp gauge was a top priority as well as a larger oil pan.After break in and switching to synthetic I will have a good idea of what I need to do.Sounds like a good plan.My block is filled to the bottom of the waterpump holes.

[Tom Vaught]

When you hard block a engine the water temp will be cooler as there is LESS cooling from the block to the filled water jackets. THE OIL TEMP WILL BE HOTTER WITH A 1/2 FILLED BLOCK AS THE OIL NOW HAS TO COOL THE PORTION OF THE BLOCK THAT NORMALLY WOULD BE COOLED BY THE WATER JACKET.

Taking a oil temp reading in the pan is important. You get over 250 degrees F in the oil and time for a oil cooler. The thermostat is typically not required as the cooler is now doing more work immediately.

Tom V.

[taff2]

My 421 is 3/4 filled and dry decked, no oil cooler but I have a remote filter (no bypass valve in it,I want all the oil filtered,all of the time), -12 fittings threaded into the block and -12 braided line to the remote filter which is positioned about 18" from the block. I change my oil and filter just once a year, drag use only at the moment. The filter is a Fram PH4825,or occasionally the Champion equivalent,though I've noticed that the oil entry holes in the Fram filter are slightly larger than the Champion so prefer the Fram.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Half-Filled since 1990. Ran a dual remote filter with no problems, then sold the combo. The thick organic hoses were excellent at keeping the heat within. The filter has the same radiative surface, exceept TWO oil filters provide double the area for half the flow rate, should have 4x the cooling ability.

The "science" as per TomV. would be the hot rod-oil & hot slug-oils drip off the uncooled lower CYL wall and into the pan, whereas the uncooled CYL wall will run hotter than if cooled. The heat has to be removed.. so a sump full of hot oil is ready to recirculate for more heat. Cast aluminum oil pan would need fins to have more radiative surface area than the thin steel pan.

Subsequent Half-Filled combos have been with Stock Filter Mount with "i dunno" results, like i dunno if it matters. I dunno.

Presently having issues with leaks at the 3-bolt mount, even with the best of gaskets and bolts. Have a spare Remote Filter setup from a PY guy just in case it was needed.

So, the wrestle is to appear Stock with no new failure modes, or go "racer" and implement new failure modes.

[HWYSTR455]

Was trying to avoid a discussion over oil heating with filled blocks, but, since we're here now...

Mine too, was filled to the bottom of the pump hole/freeze plug(s). After everyone telling me that the oil would run hotter, I installed a gauge temporarily. (Had only one fitting in the pan, drain plug). I don't recall the actual temps, but it was clear it wasn't in any danger zone, and like I said, I beat on that car.

I asked several folks personally, that had gauges installed, what their' temps were, and mine were lower. And two of who I asked didn't have their' blocks filled.

Making my oil changes go from 7 quarts to 10 or so quarts, considering my personal preference in intervals, was not something I was too anxious to move to. Not to mention the additional risks/monitoring/maintenance of the added system.

I still stand by the advice of first installing a gauge, and make the decision with specific application data. It just makes sense. In my case, I found it wasn't needed.

If you look at the data of to fill or not to fill, and the fact that filled run cooler water temps, it makes you wonder. Filled blocks have more cyl wall stability, so there's less friction, hence cooler water temps. One can argue that if the oil heats (higher than usual), and it splashes on the areas of the block that don't have water running thru it, why would the oil temp be so much higher? It still splashes on the areas of the block that does have coolant running thru it, right? Sure, there may be a few degrees difference in block temps compared to ones with coolant running thru them, but there's still radiant heat, so it's kind of a wash.

.

[Tom Vaught]

Let the engine/oil temp tell you if you need a oil cooler or not.

If you already have more oil volume 10 quarts vs say 6 quarts obviously it takes more time to add oil temp to the oil. Drag race blasts rarely put enough increase in oil temp to mean anything (even with a partially filled block on the street). Put the same Engine in a road race application for a 30 minute race at high speeds and you might have a different story.

Engines make heat. Heat Energy goes to push down on the pistons, Heat Energy goes to spin Turbocharger blades or else it goes out the exhaust. Heat Energy goes into the cooling system to be cooled by the radiator. Oil gets hot, it splashes on the cooling jackets of the block, the water in the block carries the heat away to the radiator.

Remove all of the water from the block, run your engine at high loads and read the oil temps. The oil temps will be very hot under any load condition.
We built a rig one time to measure oil temps actually at the rod bearings under a high load. Extremely high oil temps under any load. This is based on real world testing no BS.

Tom V.

[Half-Inch Stud]

TV...Master of Plattitudes

[ta man]

Thanks guys first step is ordering a oilpan,I just need to measure for a Canton 15-444 with double kickouts to see if there is any issues.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

TV...Master of Plattitudes

Deal is HIS, IT MIGHT be old info, it might be info that many already know, but
the engineering behind the statement does not change because the engineering knowledge valid.

Have a Great Day, HIS.

Tom V.

[61-63]

Tom your knowledge is appreciated by all of us. You are a crusty old bugger but you know your kaka.

[Tom Vaught]

Thanks for the kind words 61-63. Much Appreciated.

The oil cooler does not have to be very big in many cases. OEMs use the Laminova Oil Cooler Design on many Police applications (no thermostat required).

The engine's water temp actually warms up the oil somewhat when the engine is initially running as there is minimal engine water flow when the engine thermostat is closed. Later when the Engine Thermostat is open the discharge side of the radiator provides a cooler charge vs a small remote oil cooler because the Radiator has a much larger frontal area & fin count vs a typical remote oil cooler. High flow water goes thru the large nipples, oil flow goes thru the small nipples.

The Laminova oil cooler units package very well too, Most times close to the outlet water tank on the Radiator. No advertisement, just pointing out the merits of one cooler system vs another oil cooler system.

Tom V.

[tom s]

Tom,very similar to the trans oil coolers on my boat.Raw water cools the fluid instead of the engine oil.Tom

[Tom Vaught]

In your case Tom you have a massive oil cooler cooling supply called the Pacific Ocean.

Tom V.

[tom s]

It goes thru the engine heat exchanger first,then the intercooler and then thru the trans cooler.Gets hind tit.Tom

[ta man]

Update.I finally got the engine together and have quite a few street miles on it.I ended up using a Canton 400 pan with the single kickout 6.5 Qt capacity.I took the advice of a few,kept it simple and installed a oil temp gauge.Driving down the highway once the car is warmed up for an extended time I see 190 degrees for oil temps 160 degrees for coolant ...around town it does creep up to about 210 for oil temps.

[Tom Vaught]

Sounds like you have no issues at all.
The oil will not start to break down (conventional oil, not synthetic) until 240 degrees F.
Oil temp at 210 around town and 190 on the road is great. Looks like you are in a great spot for oil cooling and oil durability.

If the engine was a State Police Cruiser and required to run max speed for 15 miles to get to a bad accident then the continous high speed load would necessitate a proper oil cooler and other mods. Most street cars never see over 5 seconds of WOT unless playing games at night time in Oklahoma.

Tom V.

[PontiacMatt72]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

If the engine was a State Police Cruiser and required to run max speed for 15 miles to get to a bad accident then the continous high speed load would necessitate a proper oil cooler and other mods.

My last shift I had to respond to a "hot call" right at about 40 miles (2 counties) away. Just 2 Troopers [myself and one other] on duty for our 6-county post area at the time - not unusual for "3rd shift".

No trouble out of my '16 Dodge Charger AWD with a 5.7 liter "Hemi". Interested though as to what the oil and trans temps were. I'll try to remember to check next time I have a similar situation.

If anyone wondered, my response time was right around 26 minutes.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Sounds like you have no issues at all.
The oil will not start to break down (conventional oil, not synthetic) until 240 degrees F.
Oil temp at 210 around town and 190 on the road is great. Looks like you are in a great spot for oil cooling and oil durability.

If the engine was a State Police Cruiser and required to run max speed for 15 miles to get to a bad accident then the continous high speed load would necessitate a proper oil cooler and other mods. Most street cars never see over 5 seconds of WOT unless playing games at night time in Oklahoma.

Tom V.

It will be interesting how the oil temps react to a 1/4 mile run.