[U47]

And no place or fuel to use them.

[blue71ta]

Originally Posted by richopp

Almost all of them have valid points. (The poster unhappy with people who search for specific parts so the car can be "right:" needs to lighten-up, Francis. It's called a HOBBY for a reason.) Some people like to do that and it can be both frustrating and enjoyable. I just found two IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND tiny clips for $20.00 and it was a real treat even though I have the "original" since I ordered (remember those days?) and purchased my '72 new.

The car business is so different from what it was in the "old days" and the tech is so helpful in many ways. The nanny state stuff worries me A LOT, so I daily drive a 2007 car with a mechanical connection between the throttle plate and the gas pedal. Imagine that!

Look. the muscle cars are what they are and were...by today's standards very crude and mostly no match for a new Demon, but then again they were of that time and are clearly light-years more attractive than most any modern car IMO. Designing for gas mileage and aerodynamics and safety is much different from designing for a specific reason--to win races on Sunday so you can sell on Monday.

Muscle cars, especially the 400-point ones, will continue to draw museum and private collection crowds the same way dinosaur bones do. The difference is that you can DRIVE THEM if you want.

I see some of these high-dollar 400-point restorations becoming drivers by people who have the funds--almost everyone in the top 5%, which is about 17 million people best as I can see. They have managed to accumulate all the money and toys, so that is what will happen. Personally, I would purchase one myself to drive (it is a"new car" if done properly) and enjoy. No, the tranny is not a 97-speed or CVT (UGH!) but you can shift and drive it 1:1 and pay the VP gas price of 12/gal and still get from A to B in rather more style (IMO) than pretty much anything on the road today.

As for the hobby, even my club is losing people and interest daily, and most of us are pretty fanatical. I am old now and retired, so I don't go to events as often, but I very much appreciate the talent and skills required to do the job to get a car ready for a race or show and then SHOW UP and do it. As long as there are people around to do that, the muscle car hobby will be around in some form if somewhat diminished. As for going the way of the Model A and T, who knows? I foresee a day when Congress will outlaw gasoline, so who really knows what will happen? Enjoy today and your car(s) and keep the fires burning with everyone you can influence. We ain't gone yet.

Well put. I agree.

[Chief of the 60's]

Certain muscle cars will live on forever regardless of what some here think.

'65 GTO's, Judges, '69 - '73 T/A's, '69 Z/28's, Cudas, Challengers, Shelby Mustangs and for some reason, Grand Nationals will never die off because there will always be someone out there that just has to have one because they are icons. The prices will always fluctuate because it is what they do. Always has and always will. But the demand for a select few will always be there.

[ck67goat]

As others noted - Factory original cars are only factory original once (and even then, service replacement parts make that moot). Unless you have a museum piece, as time marches on, anyone that would ever tell me they have a "factory original" car that is also driven, simply opens themselves up to ridicule (you really drive that car with factory flaws, old/original plugs, ignition, wires, oil, tires, brakes, suspension components, etc.??? - if yes, please don't share the road with me or drive in my neighborhood). Is it fun to see factory look alike cars in a museum? Sure, but is that the future of our hobby? You can restore the car to look factory original, however GM is/was in the business of making highly mass-produced cars and inevitably always had/have goofs off the assembly line or had design shortcomings from the get go. Further, as time marches on, technology advances so unless newer technology is incorporated, the cars as drivers become obsolete. I've driven both "factory original" type cars and restoration that have been improved (restification / resto-mod - whatever term you prefer). The factory original are interesting to look at, but the latter is far more fun to drive, longer satisfaction and could actually be useful. If I lived in a location without road salt, my cars would all be built as daily drivers. If you cannot drive and enjoy, what's the point? Also, the younger crowd is spoiled because horsepower and handling is so much easier and cheaper to obtain today than even just 20 years ago. Unless you have both street cred. and visibility, the cars of yesteryear will become novelties. I still hear younger people wanting to own a muscle or antique car, however the cost, availability and drive-ability makes it more fantasy than reality.

My 67 GTO is technically a resto-mod, that I restored in the late 80's before the term "resto-mod" existed. Though the drivetrain is Pontiac and appears to be somewhat original from a distance, it has been upgraded in nearly every way (suspension, brakes, tires, overdrive, steering box, stronger components, better paint/rust proofing, better chrome on bumpers, radio, headrests, etc. etc. etc.). I did not even contemplate using puny 14x6 wheels in the late 80's, so I can relate to why today's generation could care less about the original wheels (put them on the shelf if you ever want to make it original). I built my car to be driven (though summer only in my area). I knew someone that had an unrestored original 67 GTO HO car. It was a nice car with many options and the owner kept all the factory points ignition and factory open rear end in order to keep it "factory original", but even on a good day could not run better than mid-15's. With its poor handling, steering and brakes, needless to say, the owner does not drive that car any more and its been sitting for some 20 plus years slowly decaying. My car, though a gas hog, starts instantly and can be driven. Today, new car performance from an acceleration standpoint is on par or better than the 60's unmodified performance along with the added bonus of handling, braking, gas mileage, comfort and reliability. From my viewpoint, a lot of the newer cars look kind of boring. No surprise that younger folks are still interested in the look and uniqueness of an old car, but prefer modern performance.

Un-restored or "factory original" restorations will still be valued by some museums or collectors (not the 5% someone mentioned - there is only a 1/2% crowd that has the disposable money, and then only a small handful of those have interest in old cars - folks like Jay Leno are an example - very few of these folks). For the rest of the folks that want to drive their cars, not many people under the age of 60 are accustomed to driving a car with pencil thin sway bars, 4 wheel manual drum brakes, small/narrow bias ply tires, slow-steering, lack of A/C, poor idle quality, AM radio, no shoulder belt, etc. etc. Further, asking them to do so is probably only asking for trouble from a safety perspective. Even with "smart" technology, I still see countless people making poor decisions and get into ridiculous accidents all the time - I could only imagine what today's fatality rate would be if the only safety devices in modern cars matched 1960's standards. I believe resto-mods are good for the hobby, though I personally prefer original engines in their place along with newer technology. It would take some education in order to convince the unacquainted that older engines still can be quite useful.

[1965gp]

I was at the gym yesterday and they were playing music videos (like MTV) and there wasn’t a new car in any of the videos. 60,s A bodies, 70’s full size convertibles, mustangs, etc. as long as Hollywood keeps using these cars to promote an image of uniqueness I think we will be fine.

My boss’s kid is 17 and wanted a 69 camaro. Had 30k to spend and we couldn’t find anything that had fuel injection that wasn’t junk for that price. Ended up buying a newer camaro

[bird72]

The old school / new tech is where I see the popularity going. 150mph capable vintage bodied. Saw a 68 Camaro last summer here that was all trick, twin turbo, big tire, trick chassis, etc. Then a week ago I heard some kids talking about their cars in the gym locker.... turbo imports and they were talking top end, not 1/4 mile and they were modding their turbo's it sounded. Their badge of macho was top speed and they were both talking 150.......

I see future generations going back to improving the breed, just as it was in the old days. Detroit gave the basic template, and better was always possible. Cool in a way, and back to having personalized fun. There is room for correct resto cars AND modded cars and the correct folk would be better to accept the modded cars and embrace them at shows lest their stock examples become the boring part of the hobby as perceived by kids.....

This hobby has been funny. remember when 57 Chevies were some kind of king. On ebay, they appear to be "cars" again, ha. Happy Days crazy value must be over. I remember when Trans Am's were second string to Goats. In magazines and at shows. Now they are equal if not hotter. I think T buckets are looked at with grandpa glasses now, no matter how fat a back tire..... some of what we remember as historic and cool, muscle discreetly in a sedan, is now just seen as an old sedan.....

^All Things Must Pass^

[U47]

When I was five I could name almost every car on the road. I just took a test on line of just Ford and Chevy and I could only identify 37 of of 50. This was a mix of all years with a heavy incidence of new cars. The new cars looked the same.

bird72 says " The old school / new tech is where I see the popularity going. 150mph capable vintage bodied. Saw a 68 Camaro last summer here that was all trick, twin turbo, big tire, trick chassis, etc. Then a week ago I heard some kids talking about their cars in the gym locker.... turbo imports and they were talking top end, not 1/4 mile and they were modding their turbo's it sounded. Their badge of macho was top speed and they were both talking 150....... "


I shouldn't wonder, my 2012 Nissan will do 140 and it gets 40mpg in stock form. But what is the point of making a appliance go faster. There is no intrigue, romance, styling/looks etc. to new cars.
Just a LG on wheels.