[dataway]

Another topic made me wonder this ..

Just how "GTO" could a Lemans or Tempest be optioned without actually buying a GTO? Could they be ordered with a 400/4bbl? Performance ratio rears? Sway bars, disk brakes, T-400, four speed etc?

[Scott Thelander]

I have owned a 68 4 door hardtop lemans ...4 piston disc ,pw, 350 4bbl,
trailer hitch ,level air ride, 2 speed auto ,308 posi, rallys , tilt, fmstereo, low fuel light with speed minder...
rear defroster ...thing was loaded .... busted rear frame from the towing it did ... I still have the sweet dash cluster and am fm stereo radio..very original car

had a 69 4 door lemans 350 2 bbl t/400 hardtop , PW P ant, discs, ac , rally gauges w clock , power seat, fm stereo, vinyl top , trunk pop, AC ,308 posi
tilt , w cruise .... good ole stocker with a red repaint over white

I have a 68 Lemans 350 4bbl muncie 4 speed 355 open, console convertible
in the garage right now ... real decent stocker with krappy repaint ....
rally gauge dash tack . ... was 4 piston disc now single piston 69 up ..

more made than you would think .......

lots of sprints built that way ...

then in 70 all he_ _ broke loose

Scott

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by dataway

Another topic made me wonder this ..

Just how "GTO" could a Lemans or Tempest be optioned without actually buying a GTO? Could they be ordered with a 400/4bbl? Performance ratio rears? Sway bars, disk brakes, T-400, four speed etc?

1970 models were the first production line installs of the 400 2bbl & 400 4bbl in a non GTO Pontiac A-body. The lightweight Tempest 2door/T-37/GT-37 with 400 4spd (base GTO WT) engine was the quickest '70 model Pontiac tested by Pontiac Engineering. The late John Sawruk noted that years ago.

[dataway]

What defined "special order" back then? Was it ever possible to order something that was not on the standard PHS option sheet we see now?
I still "order" my new trucks because I'm cheap and I like HD options, but of course I am limited to what options were available. Back in the day, was it possible to "special order" something that was not normally available?

In 1976 I had a friend that ordered a Nova, thing was practically a race car, big block (pretty sure a 454), four speed, low ratio rear, manual steering, no luxury options at all, had every HD or performance option that could be had, was a beast.

[300deluxe]

Originally Posted by dataway

What defined "special order" back then? Was it ever possible to order something that was not on the standard PHS option sheet we see now?
I still "order" my new trucks because I'm cheap and I like HD options, but of course I am limited to what options were available. Back in the day, was it possible to "special order" something that was not normally available?

In 1976 I had a friend that ordered a Nova, thing was practically a race car, big block (pretty sure a 454), four speed, low ratio rear, manual steering, no luxury options at all, had every HD or performance option that could be had, was a beast.

My 1968 Lemans had special ordered radial tires...350 HO, 3 speed manual Dearborn HD trans, PS PB, deluxe seat belts, Custom Wheel covers, ride and handling package, tinted windows, bucket seats, 336 posi, Meridian turquoise with Ivy Gold interior.

[dataway]

I guess my question would be ... were any of those options NOT on the standard order list or option sheet?

[north]

When you ordered a new Pontiac back then the dealer filled in an order form (PHS packet usually comes with an example). Most available options were on that sheet but "special order" options were on a second "special order" form that would be attached to the first "standard" sheet if something "special order" was needed. Examples of options considered special order in 69 included: M21 close ratio 4 speed, a RAIV engine, towing packages, special paint, taxi equipment etc. But these were still cataloged options, special order was probably only distinguished from standard options in the sense that they should only be ordered if the dealer had a firm contract with a buyer as these options might inhibit the sale of a car or prove dissatisfying for a normal buyer (imagine a normal buyer of a GTO being sold a car with 4.33 gears of the lot without him understanding what that meant).

I think what you are thinking of is off the catalog things like a 428 in a GTO or that sort of thing. Unlike Chevy who had "COPO" type options going out the door there doesn't seem to be any documented sign of that happening in some kind of organized way at Pontiac in the era we are interested in.

[dataway]

Thanks North ... just what I was wondering.
I knew some Chevy guys back in the day who order some bizarre options, hard to believe that GM even made the parts ... but then Chevy seemed to sell a lot of off the shelf racing stuff back then .... even to the point I think they would not warranty some of the options. You could probably order a Nova in 1974'ish with a 454 and two fours if you wanted it.

I would like to see one of those "Second Sheets" for a Tempest to see what you could actually get on one.

[north]

I think the PHS website has one in a "samples" tab

[UPC-WU2]

I don’t have one for ‘69 but here is the “Special Equipment” order form for 1970.

http://www.weedengraphics.com/gt-37/...g?m=1486840843

[dataway]

Very cool, so you could get a lot more stuff for a full size Pontiac than a Tempest.

Wonder what the "Super Cooling" radiator option was.

[coonhunter70]

Wonder what the "Mountain Performance option" consisted of?

[north]

Super cooling was a higher fin density version of the HD 4 core rad.

Mountain performance was typically different jetting for altitude and sometimes a bit stiffer axle to compensate for altitude power loss.

[dataway]

I want to put an ad in Craigs list ... GTO with a big block and super cooling radiator and the rare Mountain Performance Option

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by dataway

Thanks North ... just what I was wondering.
I knew some Chevy guys back in the day who order some bizarre options, hard to believe that GM even made the parts ... but then Chevy seemed to sell a lot of off the shelf racing stuff back then .... even to the point I think they would not warranty some of the options. You could probably order a Nova in 1974'ish with a 454 and two fours if you wanted it.

I would like to see one of those "Second Sheets" for a Tempest to see what you could actually get on one.

Here is the 1968 Tempest order form and the All Series Special order form.
On the Tempest form.....the models are identified across the top (3300, 3500, 3700 etc). Each option choice has 5 columns on the right that represent the 5 models. The last column (42) is GTO. If the box is blacked out then that option isn't available on that model. The 400 ci engines were only available on the 4200 series cars in 1968.

The second sheet is interesting....the ram air engine is only available on the 42 series....which is to be expected. Scroll down a bit further to 702 (5 blade HD fan which isn't available as a special order option. If you cross reference the the features sheet, it says the 42 series comes standard with the 5 blade fan. If A/C is ordered then a different fan is provided. However, if the ram air engine is ordered.....it comes with the 4 blade "34" fan and the 5 blade fan isn't available (with the ram air engine).

[PurelyGTO68]

On the flip side....
Our 73 LeMans F37 has every one of the options that are included in the GTO package except the hood....and the person who ordered it paid more for the options separately. According to the original owner, he ordered it that way because his wife would not let him order a GTO and his agent would not insure the same. LeMans was okay....GTO was a deal breaker. That car is a manual transmission 400/4bbl bucket seat car with the D98 stripe and louvered qtr windows. On the grill....where the GTO emblem would normally be is a 400 emblem. Cool car.

[dataway]

I'm a huge fan of base models that are creatively optioned. They just make for every interesting cars. Kind of an extra piece of history knowing someone went to the trouble to take a run of the mill model and option it out to something special.

As the owner of a factory spec car (pre-optioned, run of the mill, sent to a distribution lot) type GTO, I envy the cars that some actual person ordered.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by dataway

I'm a huge fan of base models that are creatively optioned. They just make for every interesting cars. Kind of an extra piece of history knowing someone went to the trouble to take a run of the mill model and option it out to something special.

As the owner of a factory spec car (pre-optioned, run of the mill, sent to a distribution lot) type GTO, I envy the cars that some actual person ordered.

Same here.
My father in law has a 61 Bel Air 348 manual trans Sport Coupe (Bubbletop) that he bought new. He worked at the Chevrolet dealership at that time and he just did not like the top of the line Impala. He said it had too much junk bolted on.....what we call "bling" these days. He liked the Bel Air trim level but wanted the big engine and a stick. Super rare car especially since he has all the original documentation that proves the car came that way from the factory. The Chevrolet crowd doesn't enjoy a service such as PHS like the Poncho owners do so having the original order forms and invoices is very helpful for other makes of collectible cars.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by 300deluxe

My 1968 Lemans had special ordered radial tires...350 HO, 3 speed manual Dearborn HD trans, PS PB, deluxe seat belts,...... with Ivy Gold interior.

What color is this Ivy Gold that you speak of?
Is it a tan?
or
Is it a light pale mint green?

I have Foam A-Pliiars in nice shape in the minty color, but i need original foam black.