[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Another way to look at it is that 3/4" of oil (increase from 1/4" clearance to 1") the engine no longer has access to is about 8/10 of a quart. So in reality it should be the same as running the engine about a quart low on oil.

I'll add one more to Tom's list of when it might matter -- Early Edelbrock heads were notorious for holding oil up in the valve cover area, and the missing oil might be the difference between an engine that lives and one that fries the bearings - and no drag racing needed, just buzzing along at a good clip down the freeway.

Very True! I (and my son) check the oil level on his truck (160,000 miles on the engine, runs well) every time he starts on a several hour trip in the vehicle. If the oil is 1/2 a quart low we top it off to the full number on the stick vs potentially hurting the engine on some of the hills that he encounters on the trip. Oil is cheap vs road service. They get their money one way or another.

Tom V.

[SusieQ]

Ok guys, here it is.

Sorry for my absence, but I'm a multiple hobby person and I stretch myself thin. Back to the "Goat!"

I'll be aiming for a distance from the bottom of the pan of 3/8" +/- 1/16" and for all the reasons stated during your discussions.

About that bracket that I planned to make? Here it is. I plan to tack weld the bracket around the tube itself and do another tack weld from pickup to bracket so it won't twist. Maybe two tack welds on the tube for extra security?

Anyway...what do you guys think?

[TedRamAirII]

I would want somewhat thicker metal for the bracket. But the design is good. Maybe 2 holes, to weld through to the tube. Punch a hole in the strap, then weld through the hole to the tube.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by SusieQ

Ok guys, here it is.

Sorry for my absence, but I'm a multiple hobby person and I stretch myself thin. Back to the "Goat!"

I'll be aiming for a distance from the bottom of the pan of 3/8" +/- 1/16" and for all the reasons stated during your discussions.

About that bracket that I planned to make? Here it is. I plan to tack weld the bracket around the tube itself and do another tack weld from pickup to bracket so it won't twist. Maybe two tack welds on the tube for extra security?

Anyway...what do you guys think?

Some nice fabrication work there. Agree, put a hole in the strap where it lays on the tube and weld it on the inside of the hole to the tube. Same deal for the edges of the strap to the tube. Small bead welds will hold it fine.

Tom V.

[SusieQ]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Some nice fabrication work there. Agree, put a hole in the strap where it lays on the tube and weld it on the inside of the hole to the tube. Same deal for the edges of the strap to the tube. Small bead welds will hold it fine.

Tom V.

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

I would want somewhat thicker metal for the bracket. But the design is good. Maybe 2 holes, to weld through to the tube. Punch a hole in the strap, then weld through the hole to the tube.

Thank you Tom.

The thickness is 22 gauge. You don't think that would work Ted? What's your opinion on that Tom?

Good idea on the holes to the tube. I was already planning on drilling a hole to fasten the strap to itself where it wraps around the tube, but was going to just have it welded on the edge to the tube itself. Good idea guys! Thank you! But do I understand you right Tom that I should put a weld bead around the perimeter of the strap to the tube? I was just going to put a couple of spot welds on it.

[Tom Vaught]

No long weld bead. Just small tack welds in several places.
And the pick-up is supported by the tube inserted in the casting.
It has worked well in that location for years and millions of miles on a fleet
of Pontiac vehicles over the years. The 22 gage strap is fine.
If you use a vice grip you can get the reinforcement piece around the tube
a bit tighter but the pickup should not loosen with just a few tack welds on the support piece and the tube. Find where the tube rests closest to the strap and tack weld it at those locations for less stress on the welds.

Tom V.

[SusieQ]

I did some final measurements. Measurements that I'm sure you'll all find very interesting.

Of course, as the pickup is turned up or down, so does the screen. And small changes on the inboard side result in radical changes at the outside tip of the screen.

The tip of the screen, when the back of the screen touches the top of the gear cover plate (with the engine on the stand upside down,) leaves the tip only 1/8" from the bottom of the pan. And it actually sits inside the little dip where the drain plug goes. So it comes darn near to touching that drain plug bolt. So we're talking really low in the pan. If I sit the back side of the screen in the notch on the underside of the plate, the tip measures 3/4" directly from the tip to the little dip.

After all of this discussion, as I see it, there's only one option, unless of course I alter the cover so the screen can be adjusted with more accuracy, and that's to sit the backside of the screen in the notch which will leave it way high.

Forgive my inability to write this using proper engineering nomenclature and parlance. I hope all of you were able to follow me on this.

Suggestions?

[b-man]

I usually grind the pump cover plate so I can adjust the pickup to where I think it belongs, about 3/8” to 1/2” from the bottom of the pan at the lowest point of the pickup. It ends up sitting at an angle of course but not too severe.

Putting the pickup in the notch seems too high in my opinion.

I use either a ball of foil or modeling clay to determine the clearance. Never had any issues doing it that way.

My experience is with 13-second daily driver street engines and low 12-second bracket race engines usually not spinning much more than 5500 rpm using the 60 psi Melling pumps. Never welded the pickup in place or used any support strap.

I drilled and tapped the pickup tube and pump body where they mate to secure the pickup, 10-32 socket head cap screw installed using red Loctite. My latest engine (mostly stock/restored 421 HO) was built by a friend who prefers to tack weld the pickup, he has built numerous engines for himself and other friends with no issues so I had no problem with his method of securing the pickup.

[Richie Hoffman]

i trim pump cover so i can get pickup height we’re i want it putting screen in notch makes screen a little to high

[SusieQ]

Originally Posted by b-man

I usually grind the pump cover plate so I can adjust the pickup to where I think it belongs, about 3/8” to 1/2” from the bottom of the pan at the lowest point of the pickup. It ends up sitting at an angle of course but not too severe.

Putting the pickup in the notch seems too high in my opinion.

I use either a ball of foil or modeling clay to determine the clearance. Never had any issues doing it that way.

My experience is with 13-second daily driver street engines and low 12-second bracket race engines usually not spinning much more than 5500 rpm using the 60 psi Melling pumps. Never welded the pickup in place or used any support strap.

I drilled and tapped the pickup tube and pump body where they mate to secure the pickup, 10-32 socket head cap screw installed using red Loctite. My latest engine (mostly stock/restored 421 HO) was built by a friend who prefers to tack weld the pickup, he has built numerous engines for himself and other friends with no issues so I had no problem with his method of securing the pickup.

Originally Posted by Richie Hoffman

i trim pump cover so i can get pickup height we’re i want it putting screen in notch makes screen a little to high

Upon further inspection, I came to realize that the cover plate lip at the notch overhung quite a bit, so I came to the same conclusion. But I still wanted to hear the opinion of the pros before doing any grinding so thanks for the input.

b-man, I fabricated a bracket to hold it in place. Scroll down a bit and you'll see pics. I'll be drilling holes in it yet to weld to.

Thanks again guys!

[Tom Vaught]

Looking at SusieQ's, oil pump picture, I have a question:

a) We already agree that the pump screen should not fit into the notch but the screen "lip" should be a bit lower on the pump and flatter on the bottom of the oil pan.

b) Most agree that a strap is not a bad idea to retain the pick-up to the pump.

So here is my question/ proposal.

If you mounted a flat strap on the bottom of the pump, (but not to the bolts closest to the pump inlet but the ones closest to the "notch" on the pump, and then located the screen so that it was more "flat" when installed in the pan (by welding the strap above the lip on the top of the pick up screen) then three things would happen.

a) The screen would be flat with the oil pan bottom surface.
b) The bolts/strap would securely keep the screen from vibrating (because you are not using the notch (which was cast in the pump housing for that purpose in the oil pump design).
c) The screen once installed could not come out of the pump because it could not move due to the oil pump cover "retention" fasteners and fabricated strap.

Tom V.

You could call it the Susie Q "Oil Screen Mod".

[SusieQ]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Looking at SusieQ's, oil pump picture, I have a question:

a) We already agree that the pump screen should not fit into the notch but the screen "lip" should be a bit lower on the pump and flatter on the bottom of the oil pan.

b) Most agree that a strap is not a bad idea to retain the pick-up to the pump.

So here is my question/ proposal.

If you mounted a flat strap on the bottom of the pump, (but not to the bolts closest to the pump inlet but the ones closest to the "notch" on the pump, and then located the screen so that it was more "flat" when installed in the pan (by welding the strap above the lip on the top of the pick up screen) then three things would happen.

a) The screen would be flat with the oil pan bottom surface.
b) The bolts/strap would securely keep the screen from vibrating (because you are not using the notch (which was cast in the pump housing for that purpose in the oil pump design).
c) The screen once installed could not come out of the pump because it could not move due to the oil pump cover "retention" fasteners and fabricated strap.

Tom V.

You could call it the Susie Q "Oil Screen Mod".

I think it's an interesting idea Tom, but I'm already going to weld the existing strap directly to the tube, so wouldn't an additional strap be redundant? And if I welded that secondary strap to the screen, wouldn't there be a risk of damaging the thin screen material?

I'll grind down the lip that prevents the screen from rotating downward to my desired position. Then I'll be drilling two holes in the strap at the tube and welding in those locations, as well as drilling a hole in the part of the strap that wraps around the tube, tightening it with Vice-Grips, and welding that. I can't see how it could ever move.

[Tom Vaught]

Not saying in your case that you cannot do it exactly the way you described and with the bracket you currently have. Go for it.

That being said, at Ford we had welders who could weld a bead on .015" feeler gage strip steel with a TIG and not blow thru the strip. So the oil pump screen housing thickness would not be an issue for some. Do not change what you are planning on doing.
I was suggesting the relocation of the strap for others who might want to do something similar to what you did.

Tom V.

[brdngtn]

After reading all the above, and since I have the original 1968 242 block, pan and pump, I decided to investigate how it came from the factory. With original pump bolted in and block upside down, I measured the tallest point of the tilted screen 7 1/8" from oil pan mounting surface on the block. When I went to measure the pan depth, I wondered where to take my measurement, so I put a roll of tape on the pump intake screen and placed the pan (with drain plug in it). I discovered that the pan cannot be placed directly inline with mounting bolt holes, it needs to be be moved forward and then rear again for the screen to clear the drain plug. No one would normally notice this because the drain plug is removed before the oil pan. Due to the curved inlet pipe, the screen can pivot to avoid the drain plug once installed, but cannot be forward enough to miss it entirely. This tells me that, from the factory, the intake screen is installed so the drain plug end comes in above it, and that the screen itself tilts down into the well leading to the drain plug.

My new Melling M-54D-S came with intake screen tube 1/2" shorter which moves it off center toward passenger side but same front to back. It can ever interfere with the drain plug, but will miss the drain plug well so will need to be shallower than the original just to not hit the bottom of the pan.