[unruhjonny]

It occurred to me how it seems odd that Chevrolet's get some much limelight and are valued so high, when in fact they can often pale in comparison to the competition - even when it's friendly competition like Pontiacs.

For the last several weeks I have been perusing threads on nastyZ28 (mostly because of shared drivetrain components), and my mind has been wandering a bit;
In the Chevrolet/Camaro-world, 1970 is the undisputed 'big dog' as far as horsepower goes for the whole run of the second gen Camaro;
But over here in Pontiac/Firebird-world, 1970 is just one high water mark - most (probably for good reason) will cite 1973/1974 SD455 cars as being the 'big dog' - but where does that leave the 455HO's, the Ram Air IV's, the other 'Ram Air' powered cars, or the not-even-Ram-Air cars?!?

I have heard several first hand stories of cars from before my days, but not having lived through the musclecar heydays I only have stories to go on.
I have heard many stories about vaunted Chevrolet "big block" cars being taken down by otherwise seemingly "pedestrian" Pontiac's.
An example of such stories I have read are from the likes of 'Ponyakr';

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=685622
(the following is slightly edited to make it easier to read, and taken from multiple posts)

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I ran d stock & won my class almost every week - they gave a trophy for class win & a bigger one for overall win. I soon had a room full of trophies and we ended up having so many trophies that we talked the track owners into giving us $5 instead of a trophy.
...
I must give credit where the credit is due;
Through all these wins (which was almost every race that 1st 2 years) ... I cannot take any of the credit - all I did was pop the clutch & row thru the gears. The ole goat did the work and it wasn't because I hopped it up with cheater parts - I assure you it was stone stock, just as delivered from the factory.
I had driven the GTO about 61,000 miles when I took it off the street to race and at that time the only work ever done on it was a new timing set.
...
When I would get ready to race, I installed a new clutch & pressure plate and raced the motor stone stock & unmolested all of '73 & '74.
I guess that's one reason they were so popular back then, they were bad to the bone right from the factory.
...
I could have gotten 4.33 gears in my goat, but I knew it would be a daily driver, so I compromised with a 3.90.
...

(thanks to ponyakr for sharing his stories and pictures - if you haven't read his thread, it's an interesting glimpse into time bygone - the link to his thread is right above his words.)

Back to the Camaro thing, the highest horsepower 1970 Chevrolet engines were:
L48 @ 300hp/380tq (SS; base)
LT1 @ 360hp/380tq (Z28)
L34 @ 350hp/415tq ('base' SS396 motor)
L78 @ 375hp/415tq (optional SS396 motor)
LS6 @ 450hp/500tq (Chevelle only)

It seems to me that Chevrolet was breaking GM's hp to weight ratio numbers with every one of those engines (except for the 'base' SS 350) when applied to the Camaro - iirc the Firebird was rated as being 3,450lbs, ergo the max hp motor that could be used in a Firebird was 345hp - I would think the Camaro should have had about the same, or a lower number based on the wieght of a Chevrolet small block vs a Pontiac V8.... but I digress this is a small tangent.

While the highest horsepower 1970 Pontiac engines were:
L78 @ 350hp/445tq (base in GTO & Formula Firebird; Firebird rated @ 330hp)
L74 @ 366hp/445tq (aka: RAIII; Firebird rated @ 345hp)
L67 @ 370hp/445tq (aka: RAIV; no Firebird rating, not an official option)
L75 @ 370hp/500tq (aka: "d-port 455HO"; GTO only)

It really seems to me that even though Chevrolet gets all the glory these days, it's really slanted - because as Ponyakr points out in his great thread, Pontiac really did a great job... and even though they may not have had the all out highest hp engines for really any given model year, their bread and butter stuff seems (to me at least) to be heads and shoulders above the competitions comparable models - let's compare the 'base' drivetrains for the Camaro SS & Firebird Formula in 1970 as an example:

Camaro SS
pro: 4 speed is base with no charge to swap between M20, M21 or M22
con: down 30hp (actually 50hp) compared to Formula

Firebird Formula
pro: up 30hp (actually 50hp) compared to Camaro SS
con: if you want a four speed, you have to pay for it.

Now let's compare the drivetrains for the top model Camaro (Z28) & Firebird (Trans Am) in 1970:

Camaro Z28
pro: more subdue package than Trans Am; 3.73:1 standard gearing & 4.10:1 optional gearing; M22 available
con: down 6hp and 30ft/lbs when you use the real GTO hp numbers; posi is an option; more gearing means less highway friendly.

Firebird Trans Am
pro: has an additional 6hp and 30ft/lbs when you use the real GTO hp numbers; posi is included with the package; less gearing means more highway friendly.
con: I have come to understand that for it's time, it was a little too flashy for many; 3.55:1 gearing standard and the only optional 'performance' gearing was the 'standard' set used on the Z28; no M22 available.

Another interesting note when comparing 1970 Camaro with 1970 Firebird performance models is that only 2,464 1970 Camaro SS's were built with either big block (because the SS's optional L34 on paper looks comparable to the base Formula engine) - while there were 7,708 Formulas and another 3,196 Trans Ams - putting the ratio of 400cid+/350+hp Firebirds vs Camaro's for 1970 at more than 4:1;
It's only when you add '70 Z28's to those numbers that 350+hp Camaros get to a virtually 1:1 ratio against the Firebirds...

Now I'm not trying to knock Chevrolets, or say that they in any way are not worth enjoying, but I guess I just don't seem to understand how a good chunk of their value is about the badge - rather than the hard performance numbers.

This is from a recently read article called "Interesting Chevy Muscle Car Facts";

Car Life magazine was less than impressed when its 1970 LS6 Chevelle ran 14.57 at 99.77 for a September 1970 road test.

This e/t put's the "fastest" production Chevrolet car squarely in the sights of a 'base' 1970 GTO....

Just sharing my thoughts and ponderings...
feel free to share your thoughts or insights...

... and incase I don't have opportunity in the next week;
Merry Christmas & happy new year!