[Old-Goat]

I've got to tell you, the rust looks a whole lot worse in person. I will post better pictures as I get them and maybe even some pics of the repairs someday. (I hope)

[copierfixer]

gene,
you've got mail.

[Old-Goat]

Fixer,

I didn't get the mail you sent.

[email protected]

[copierfixer]

gene,
i'll resend
paul

[copierfixer]

gene,
i just sent you mail from my yahoo mail.
paul

[karl emerick]

gene,
it all depends on the amount of effort you want to spend and the amount of 'education' you want to get on this project.

I have some chunks of metal if you need them.
you have a mig welder, right?

Wow Gene - looks like a project.

Did the guy you bought the car from do this work? I'd certainly have a discussion with the seller of the car about what you found . . . if they didn't know - no big deal. If they did?????

[Old-Goat]

I really really appreciate all the helpful posts and emails. Here is what I have determined today. At some point in this cars life it was worked on but not correctly. The masses of bobdo I pulled out from between what was left of the dash and what was left of the windshield channel had to weigh 3 or 4 pounds and was put in over rust.

I have removed all of that along with the channel piece between the windshield and where the piece with the slots goes (behind the rear of the hood) and it is a mess. I hope to post more pictures later this week. I don't see myself (with the limited amout of welding experience I have) being able to fabricate new parts so I guess I need to decide if I need an entire donor body that needs less work or if I want to cut pieces and weld them in. The drivers side is as bad if not worst than the passenger side (at the bottom of the windshield). There are areas where there is 3 inches missing from the dash on the windshield side and there is no area where the dashboard could meet a new windshield cahannel. If this was the only area that was rusted I would have a good feeling about it but the sides under the dash (behind the kick panels) are rusted, the areas of the roof under the drip rail on the sail panel, the trunk bed, it needs both full panels under the seats, as well as a rear tail light panel and panel from rear window to the trunk and there is more I have not mentioned.

I don't have a welder but I am prepared to buy one along with media blasting equipment. I am not against education and I truly do enjoy working on it and I am get really excited to see the cars that others have redone since they look so good. This (the 67) has been one of my favorite cars (if not my absolute favorite) since I was in HS in the late 60's.

Gene GAnt

[karl emerick]

my .02,
repairing all those rust areas is a MAJOR undertaking. and you will not get the best finished result unless you seriously climb the learning curve of car restoration.

unless it's a rare or very desirable car
(I hate to say it, but....)you may want to cut your losses and look for something better

[kidgoat]

Karl, no offense but that is the wrong thing to say. Dive in feet first, do what you can, and if its still not working out for you after a while, then ask some people to help you. A true car guy/autobody guy will love to help you, free of charge. A few cases of beer later the car will be done. -Jesse

[Old-Goat]

Karl,
The car is not that rare (at least I don't think it is, according to the book there were 4000 or so produced that year)it is a 67 GTO std two door ht with a 400 YZ (HO) Tyrol blue with parchment interior. All the numbers match with the exception of the carburator and exhaust manifolds (unless you can tell me where to find the numbers on a rusty pair of hooker headers (grin)). The car was bought in Miami FL when new.

Here is what I think I have decided to do. I will give replacing some of the metal a shot. There are enough bad spots that are hidden that I could get a masters degree in welding and fabrication before I would ever have to start on anything visible. If I stink at it, I will either find another body, or save up to have someone do the exterior stuff I can't.

I think I have the aptitude to learn the skills necessary to do it. My dad was a sheet metal fabricator for 33 years (unfortunatly he passed away two years ago) and I have had some experience years ago stick (arc)welding.

Kidgoat,

Where do these free car guys live? (o/k)

I appreciate both your inputs.

Gene

[kidgoat]

Well, I got my Goat when I was 17 (now I'm 22) and have worked at a body shop for 7 years, so thats how I hook up with them. They're all super guys. I basically built my car using trial and error (do it till it works, I really had no idea what I was doing), asked for some pointers in there, and asked for help if/when it was needed. If you dont know of any body guys you might just want to stop at a local shop and ask around to some of the older guys if they would be willing to help out a little. Most of them would love to I bet, and you might make a lifelong friend out of it also. -Jesse

Donor Car?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2469503429

[karl emerick]

kidgoat,
I appreciate your comment about the wrong thing to say. and I'd like to be more optimistic.
but when you're talking about both window channels including A-pillars, dash, floor pans, trunk floor, tail panel, quarters, etc. - the gentleman needs to know it's a MAJOR project involving either a large outflow of cash or sweat equity - or both. it's not the kind of car to cut your restoration teeth on. you could be damn proud of it when it's done but...... it might be easier and less expensive in the long run to find something more solid

[carcrazy]

I'm about 80% through what he is looking at. I've done all the work myself-including metal fab of which there was a tremendous amount. It has taken nearly 3 years and for what I have in the car I could have bought one already done. Although this will be a great car when completed but I don't think I would take on a project of this magnitude again! Good luck!

[Old-Goat]

Guys,

Thanks for all your input.

I did some more work last night and decided to uncover a seemingly good area to see what was under the paint. I found that the entire car is covered with a 1/8 to 1/4" layer of bondo (over the original paint). This is going to really make it a bear to get it down to metal to see what I have to work with, and I am sure there are hidden bad spots or why else would it be totally bondoed (sp?). I think I have changed my mind again and I am going to look for a donor body with less problems. (I really appreciate your candor carcrazy)

I will keep you updated and thanks again.

Gene

[karl emerick]

jaguars had a final layer of body filler and were block sanded to really smooth out the imperfections in the metal from the stampings and sharpen the body lines

I think it's safe to say if there is a layer of body filler over the metal, the metal is irregular - either corroded, pitted, rippled, repaired, etc.

the only way to do a car like that would be to have it plastic media blasted down to bare metal and be prepared for the suprises

[Old-Goat]

After doing a little more work (with sanders and wire wheels) I found many more things wrong with this car's body (in addition to the problems I have already reported). I have been waffling between repairing this one and getting another body for the past two weeks.

It seems as though this car was worked on (looks like old work) in a number of areas. I uncovered a metal patch tack welded onto the sail panel at the drip rail. The patch is about 3 inches by 5 inches. When I pulled it off, I found it had been put on over the rust and it was a rusty mass behind the patch and the patch itself had a hole the size of a quarter rusted through it. I found the front passenger corner of the roof had rusted through and it had been beaten down and bondoed over. There holes IN THE LEAD used to join the sail panel and the roof. I have yet to figure out how lead can rust but I think the rust underneath pushed the lead up and caused the holes when I sanded it. The tail panel had been replaced and there was work done on the qtr panels above the bumber around the tail panels and they are now not the same as the original shape. This area had 1/2 inch of bondo over it and the trim pieces on either side of the trunk trim would not fit. Even after I ground all the bondo off they did not fit. I am really at the point where I don't think I want to work on this body and that brings up a question. Right now everythng (all the PHS numbers) matches on the car. If I ever sell it, can I still call it a matching numbers car if I use another body? How much of the original body has to be there for the car to be original? Stupid questions I guess, but I think I am still at the point where this seems like a good investment. I can't wait till I get to the point where I can say damn it all I just wanna have fun driving a car I loved in my youth (although I had planned some of that too).

Thanks again for all your help and advice.


Gene Gant

[67GTONUT]

Gene, Just read your post. Sorry about the bad luck. I also have no real talent on body work, so I cant help you there. I just wanted to give my opinion on if the car is worth saving.
As far as rarity..... If it is an HO car, Please save it, 67 HO's are getting rare.... not as rare the the 67 RamAir cars, but nonetheless, still a desirable car.
As far as how much of the body needs to be original for car to be a numbers matching..... I say as our hobby has to deal with our cars getting older and older..... replace what you have to, it would still be an number matching car to a lot of people. Geez the Corvette boys are restamping blocks and calling them numbers matching. All you are doing is finding or repairing a body for the essence of a desirable car. Just my .02 cents.

Troy

[400 4spd.]

I've been following along, and this IS a sad story. I hate to see people get ripped when buying a car. The other rust not withstanding, the car definitly needs a used roof if it's gonna be saved. Good luck with it.