[slowgto]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte...rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[EBJudge]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlowGTO:
The lame block re-stamp wasn't even in the right place. It was stamped like a Fremont car, up high, near the head and the last three digits were not there.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you find that Fremont cars where stamped up high, near the head?

My Judge is a Fremont car, stamped up high, near the head. I showed pictures of it and the decal that the numbers are stamped through at the GTOAA Nats and no one seemed to know anything about that! Even John Sawrunks said he'd not seen anyting like it and to preserve it! (the decal, that is) Where can I find something to document this? I'm trying to find out so I can get my engine done.

[1969 Ram Air]

That judge looks very nice. It will be expensive.

[slowgto]

It is still for sale. The buyer did not wire the money as agreed.

[RicksGTO]

Here's the link HFR is referring to.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=72...32609145&r=261609245


I looked at a one owner (real grandma car) Fremont built '70 GTO a few years ago and wasted over an hour cleaning and using mirrors trying to find the engine vin stamp in the normal location and finally gave up. This was before I learned about the high vin stamps. Rick

[slowgto]

I looked at it, and decided it was a fake.

The Data Tag rivets were mangled, and the plate had 30 coats of paint on it, trying to hide something.

The lame block re-stamp wasn't even in the right place. It was stamped like a Fremont car, up high, near the head and the last three digits were not there.

Not "highly detailed" or "concours" as advertised.

No letter for Plant Code in the VIN?

Guy missing the PHS page that tells you the car colors, motor, rear gear, etc.

Steer clear boys!

[slowgto]

Is the tach reproduction? I thought the shifter looked strange also. Maybe the console is in wrong.

No pictures of the frame or suspension?

[GTOnly70]

SlowGTO,

Interesting comments about the Judge. Have you considered contacting some of the other bidders with this info before they make a $50k mistake?

Regarding your comment about the block stamp on Fremont built cars, was it common for these stamps to be high, near the head? I have a very early production '65 (2nd week of Sept. 64) Tri-Power car that was built at Fremont. The WS stamp is near the head, above the engine sequence number. It is absolutely the original engine to the car as the engine sequence number matches the protect-o plate and the car's history is well-known. I have since seen a few other Fremont cars with the engine stamp high. Do you know if the Fremont plant did this for all model years?

[Held for Ransom]

I think the Judges have enough things to worry about when critiquing the cars they judge. They took a few untouched originals and based everything on those cars and what was written in literature (I still don't know if they deduct points on the '70 455, YA or YC (I forget which), saying one of the codes is incorrect). I've reported to several people about the high stamping on '70 Fremont cars.

[1969 Ram Air]

Are you sure he sold it? It's still on Ebay now.

[63pig]

I'm not a judge owner, but I do have a baltimore 69 GTO, and I have some real problems with the 50 K so-called judge as well. If this is a concourse restoration, then my driver just notched up in value. The interior is sloppy, with the headliner sagging, the sail panels are wrinkled, and those trim rings are depressing. The trunk fit is awful, and there is certainly something untowards with the shifter. Here's a link to the car at a dealership, which includes its VIN. I wonder if its PHS docs show no ralley guages or clock?

http://www.carad.com/showroom/showroom.cfm?mode=1&manuf...717512&sc=0&status=0

[Brock]

TOO BAD. THE JUDGE WITH A/C IS RARE.

[taximan]

how much did he sell it for ??

[Sport71]

EBJ - There was a thread a while back on this. Seems Fremont was unique with their "high stamp" location, but not sure if it applies to every car from that plant. I think OPH has a lot of experience with this topic. My GTO is a Fremont car and has the high stamp too. Surprising that this wasn't well known at the Nats ...

[1969 Ram Air]

Wow! I'm glad somebody looked at the car in person. A $50k fake? I noticed that it has some bid retractions and now hasn't met the reserve. It takes some guts to try to sell a car like that. Too many crooks out there.

[RicksGTO]

Sounds like you let a nice one get away there too Bob, if we could only go back in time. The car I was looking at had 30 years of engine oil and grime on it and it was sometime in July-Aug. in San Antonio, so my patience was wearing thin after a while. I just never imagined cleaning off the area up high on the block when searching for the VIN and gave up. Looks like EB's car got the fully upside down stamp. Always interesting to see the differences in the way some plants/workers did things on these cars. Rick

[STXJudge]

And maybe I'm looking at it weird, but is something up with the shifter?

[EBJudge]

Thanks for the link RicksGTO!
Very helpful, I wonder how I missed it back then?
This is mine, with the decal on, and the stamp upside down!

[slowgto]

GTOonly70,

When I mentioned the block re-stamp, I meant the VIN stamp. It looked like a legit WS block, and the WS was near the head like all '69s. I am not familiar with '65s.

The auction has not met reserve, and I think that is how it will end.

His "documented restoration" included a notebook and four photos. The front fenders and quarters were both rusted through at the bottom, the rear window base was rusted out, and the trunk was 90% cut out.

I asked how the 75K mileage was documented and he said he it had 74K when he bought it in 1999 and he didnt think prior owners drove it much.

When I confronted him about the bogus data plate, incorrect block vin stamp, and missing PHS page he said "I am not a Pontiac historian." So he has a $50K car he knows nothing about?

The four Mopar projects strewn about the property confirmed the cheasy used car salesman look.

[slowgto]

I called him, but he already sold it off Ebay. I really don't understand why people end their auctions early.