[unruhjonny]

It's also interesting to note that I recall seeing a service package for gauge surrounds - one part number was for chrome surrounds, and the other was for black surrounds...
according to the parts book (if I remember correctly), there was a "build date" cut off date as for which one was correect for which car...

About the ad posted with the '70 T/A with the shifter knob with the red insert - That is the exact add I was refering to - I have never seen that knob, only ones like it that had a walnut handle instead of the psudo-leather handle... I have presumed that was a pre-production peice, like many of the parts on the pre-production Trans An and Formula cars used for magazine tests...

About that picture Pete posted - Yup, the RTS is the most painfully obvious out-of-place item for a 1970 T/A... (the second clue is the "wiper/washer" script opening)

About the date posted as for when the 'bird moved on (non-A/C) cars; was there a point in time when they started going back to that spot? - I have seen many over there - including my '73... I often wondered if there was a ryme or reason as to where the emblem was put, because I see more way over to the right than not...

[Shift'n Gears]

With respect to the shifter, I agree with Larry's statement

Technically....there were two(2) different type "leather" knobs in the '70's.
The early ones had a raised shifter bezel.
The later ones had a flush mounted bezel.

I did find it interesting that some 70 original owners said that their cars came with the round balls instead of the knobs, as none of my research has evidence of this as a option. I researched several Original Dealer brochures and looked in several reference books. All the pictures I have found show the "70 only" shifter knob which has different printing on the raised surface. Since all the pictures are in black & white I cannot tell colors.

To add to the mystery is the fact that dealers would "customize" cars on the showroom floor. Evidence of this is dealer installed options such as in 1971 the Brochure has listed dealer installed Hood Pins. Even though a dealer could have installed them as an option, I would not consider them stock.

If anyone has any date correct photos or other tangible evidence that the round balls were available in 1970 as stock, or a dealer installed option, I would be very interested.

TIA

[eaglesan13]

Ames catalog number F11 (page 155) lists a part number for the 1970 "large diameter black 4 speed shift knob". The comment says, "We have had requests for this rarely used large shift knob found on some 1970 applications...

The part number is FR575C

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Shift'n Gears

With respect to the shifter, I agree with Larry's statement

Technically....there were two(2) different type "leather" knobs in the '70's.
The early ones had a raised shifter bezel.
The later ones had a flush mounted bezel.

?
You do understand that that was posted to distinguish an early from a late psudo-leather shifter handle right?
I have seen the handles with the "raised shift indicator insert" handles in cars as late as 1975... and all the later (eg: 1978+) cars had the "flush shift indicator insert" handles.
IF I notice anything out of place on a car I cannot suggest it as being oringinal especially since this is an easilty changed piece...

Originally Posted by Shift'n Gears

...I did find it interesting that some 70 original owners said that their cars came with the round balls instead of the knobs, as none of my research has evidence of this as a option. I researched several Original Dealer brochures and looked in several reference books. All the pictures I have found show the "70 only" shifter knob which has different printing on the raised surface. Since all the pictures are in black & white I cannot tell colors.

?
Some original owners?? - I thought every original owner here has stated this...
It wasn't untill a couple years back that I knew the '70 Firebirds had specific shifter handles - as this isn't common knowledge; and since the pre-production cars pictured for the 1970 Firebird advertisement campaign clearly did not use production pieces, it should be feasable to understand that some of the finer details had not been cleared out at the time of printing those advertisements...

Originally Posted by Shift'n Gears

...To add to the mystery is the fact that dealers would "customize" cars on the showroom floor. Evidence of this is dealer installed options such as in 1971 the Brochure has listed dealer installed Hood Pins. Even though a dealer could have installed them as an option, I would not consider them stock.

There is no mystery here - the hood pins & hood tach were never installed from the factory (just like 1967/1968 Firebird Ram Air systems) - they were only installed at the dealership.
For you to suggest that a 1970/1971 Firebird with hood pins should not be considered stock, would lend me to believe that you should think that 1970/1971 Formulas with the hood tach - or a 1967/1968 Firebirds with fuctional ram air are all incorrect...

Originally Posted by Shift'n Gears

...If anyone has any date correct photos or other tangible evidence that the round balls were available in 1970 as stock, or a dealer installed option, I would be very interested.

TIA

?
What kind of evidence do you require... how many original 1970 Formula or Trans Am owners have to state that the black ball was their original piece before you believe it was the factory piece...

I believe that the same oversized round (black) ball was used for some years of GTO's and Grand Am's - so this shifter handle was definatly used for more than one year & model application...

I submit for the viewing pleasure of this audience two more pictures of an original 1970 Firebird with a black shifter ball - this one was the most recent one I Photographed, a legit 1970 L74/4spd Formula - the only things changed on it, were paint, and some small service items... this was the first Formula I've seen with the 70 only "ram air"-air cleaner base brakets still in place...

[keith k]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I submit for the viewing pleasure of this audience two more pictures of an original 1970 Firebird with a black shifter ball - this one was the most recent one I Photographed, a legit 1970 L74/4spd Formula - the only things changed on it, were paint, and some small service items... this was the first Formula I've seen with the 70 only "ram air"-air cleaner base brakets still in place...

How cool is that!... a '70 deluxe sandalwood interior that hasn't been changed to black

Thanks for posting, jonny -- good reference for me (right down to the black ball shift knob )