[Blue'69]

What is the current market value on a '70 GTO hartop. Car has the following:
455- original engine- 100K+ miles
AC but doesn't work and not installed
No rust cheap repaint and not original color
Automatic on console Turbo 400(rebuilt)
rearend is 10 bolt not 12 bolt
Power windows and Locks

Chime in and let me know what you all think.

[Aaron75]

are you saying they pulled the original 12 bolt? you can't have an original 455 w/ a 10 bolt rear.

Aaron

[A455GTO]

Get PHS documentation, if you don't have the build sheet.

To be a 455 car in 1970, 12 bolt was mandatory.

[getmygoat]

With good paint and no major issues, $25k....sounds like the car you describe is about $15k, assuming original engine.

[4SLASH6]

deduct accordingly for rust through in floors or trunk. also inspect for previous body work i.e.mud, patch panals .....take your kitchen magnet with you. verify block #'s from engine to indeed match partial vin. and of course phs car.

[allen smith]

There is a 455 matching # matching`70 GTO sitting in a building in Conover, NC and has been there for many years and the owners says he is going to restore, but a friend of mine in linconton, NC says he never will. Car is partially disassembled, and I have no idea of its worth?

[Aaron75]

I've a numbers matching '70 455 w/ 4 speed so i keep track of how much they tend to go for. Hemmings Muscle Machines issued a 'buyer's guide' in one issue that listed a 'concours restored' one going for $50k verified by a sale. Normal prices accourding to it were in the low to mid $20ks.

Personally i'd say they're priceless. How can you let go of a '70 455 gto?

Aaron

[Blue'69]

The original rearend has been removed from this car so It would have to be replaced with a 12 bolt to make it back right again. I haven't seen the car in person yet but plan to do so. Owner claims the engine is original but intake has been changed but he has the original intake. AC car but its in the trunk all apart. I think without seeing it we're talking maybe 14-15K if everything else checks out. Is this too much??

[Aaron75]

gack!

seems to be too much to me. I'd think you could get a more parts original car for that kind of corn.

Aaron

[4SLASH6]

less we not forget that auto's tend to sell for around 5 grand less than 4 speeds, when talking muscle cars.

[DavesGTO]

I prefer 4-speeds myself, but that chevelle convert that went for 1.1mill at BJ was an auto on the column. Originality means more to the price of the car that the trans so i would deduct the cost to get the car back to original from the price above the transmission. Bottom line is still how much will it take you to get it correct will determine what you pay to begin with.

[4SLASH6]

as for bj $$ ,..originality does not always mean more to the price of a car. ...seen some of those pink and sceamin yellow rods? on the other hand after close observation and #'s crunching there are some cars that maybe beyond a return to original. best to find comparable finished like examples, tranny and all when reseaching any value of muscle cars.

[78 GHOST]

I bought my 70 in 2001, it turned out to be totally numbers matching except the carb., Dist., and Alt. The engine is/was strong, the bodywork was good and the paint was quite good. The brakes were shot, the A/C didn't work, the suspension was shot. The interior was all there and in surprising condition, maybe a 4 out of 5.

All in all a very solid driver quality vehicle. I bought the car at the ATL airport and immediately drove it over two days to Cleveland, Ohio.

The attached photos indicate the condition, I had detailed the engine and wheels, and repaired some shoddy wiring and fixed the brakes.

Subsequent to these photos, I tore the thing apart and am now at the reassembly phase of an extensive frame-off restoration.

I originally paid $10,000 for the car. Using that as a starting point, I would consider that your car in question should not be worth any more than $10,000 as it sits. I'm making the assumption the car has appreciated a little and you have to make a MAJOR concession to the fact that the engine and diff. aren't original.

IMHO you're either dealing with a "Numbers car" or you aren't. Without trying to start a debate, I think the buyer has a lot of leverage when a GTO does not have the original engine. Without the engine, the car is really nothing more than a nicely dressed Tempest or Le Mans, and should be priced accordingly.

The potential restorer might look for a SR block of the appropriate vintage to maintain a link (slight one at best) to the original concept of the car.

If you're dealing with a "Numbers car" you have to pay to play. Otherwise, you have to value the car on its' merits.

[Bermuda Blue]

Originally Posted by 78 GHOST

IMHO you're either dealing with a "Numbers car" or you aren't. Without trying to start a debate, I think the buyer has a lot of leverage when a GTO does not have the original engine. Without the engine, the car is really nothing more than a nicely dressed Tempest or Le Mans, and should be priced accordingly.

The potential restorer might look for a SR block of the appropriate vintage to maintain a link (slight one at best) to the original concept of the car.

IMHO, the 455 available in '70 is nothing more than a good station wagon motor. Without trying to start a debate, a RAIII will outrun one. Not to mention a RAIV. With a 455, the car is really nothing more than a nicely dressed wagon or catalina.

A potential enthusiast may wish to install a performance oriented pontiac motor to maintain a link to the original concept of the GTO.

[78 GHOST]

Bermuda:

Yes, in terms of value,the RA and/or Judge cars are superior to the 455 cars. The 455s were in fact installed in wagons. However, I take exception to your statement that the RA III would "Outrun one" (455.)

See below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_GTO The section on the 1970 GTO is interesting in their comparison of track performance. A quarter of a second and less than a MPH does not constitute "outrun" in my book.

Back to the issue, my point was that a seller trading on the merits of a complete GTO must provide some basis for that selling point.

Specifically, I gave an example of a pretty decent GTO purchase including virtually all matching components as my illustration. To help out the author of this thread, I was attempting to draw some distinction between what is on the market. Although my purchase wasn't yesterday, it was only 5 years ago and the market hasn't changed wholesale in that time.

Blue '69:

Despite everyone's different opinions, the true measure of what a vehicle is worth is what a buyer is willing to pay. If the car in question is worth $15,000 to you, then you've established it's value.

Good luck and have fun with whatever you find out there.

[TJH]

Originally Posted by 78 GHOST

Although my purchase wasn't yesterday, it was only 5 years ago and the market hasn't changed wholesale in that time.

Have you been watching ANY collector vehicle prices lately? In the past TWO years, ALONE, the prices have skyrocketed. Parts prices have gone from merely insane, to ridiculous (I bought NOS front fenders about three years ago- for $500 each. Now- they're going for $2000 apiece.)
I don't recall seeing any GTO's sold at auction for almost half a million five years ago.
And Mopars weren't bringing over six figures for cloned cars, even two years ago.
The entire market has changed- dramatically. While numbers may mean more money, and to some the entire world revolves around correct numbers, the reality is that if the acr is rust-free, and in overall good condition, $12-15K would not seem out of line.
And- 455's are rapidly gaining on the RAIV cars- witness the prices of 1970 64 heads- two years ago, you'd be lucky to get $400 for a pair, on ebay. The last set I saw sold for around $1300. Still not at the $2K-plus for RAIV heads, but the gap is closing.
Not terribly bad for a "station wagon" engine...

[TJH]

Oh, by the way- about seven years ago, I bought a loaded one-owner 1970 455HO coupe, perfectly rust-free and straight (but needing paint), with every part except the carburetor correct and original, for $3000. So, from seven years ago to five, assuming your $15K deal can be considered a really good one on a numbers-matching car, things have, again, gone up dramatically.

[Bermuda Blue]

i was attempting to illustrate absurdity by being absurd...satire.

yes, a car without its orignal engine woud be worth more if it had it. But to suggest a GTO without its original engine is on the level of a tempest is rediculous.

It is also absurd to state that a GTO without its orignal engine does not comply to the "original concept" of the GTO.

BTW, I like the '70s with the 455...nice smooth idle. Unlike the RA motors.

[scott70]

I love it when i hear the 70 gto/gp 455 engine was the same engine you could get in a station wagon.........wrong.Different heads,4 bolt mains,possible 068 cam..........................not in a wagon.Whats so special about a ra3 engine over a standard 400?????????Ahhhh ,same things but you could get the 744 cam i believe.Wow.(sarcasim)I bought my 70 455/4speed 3.31 posi car in '86,all original down to the cam,ran 14.0 in 1/4 mile.Put in a dist recurve kit and ra manifolds and ran 13.5.And it weighed 3952lbs with me in it.Not bad for a supposed(wagon)motor.Payed 1500$ for it in '86.Still have it.