[TreySmith]

Originally Posted by JMackPontiac

Put a 'REAL PONTIAC' engine in it! You can build a 550 HP and 575/600 TQ that will get you the RWHP that you want and it won't cost $8-9 K if you shop around for a 'good' block, crank, rods, pistons, etc. The Pontiac 462 will KILL the LS1 or LSX for what you are wanting to do, if you make it hook of course.

Nothing against the LS1 or LSX engines, they just belong in a Chevy, not a Pontiac...........period. That is like inbreeding, not cool. If you must go with a 'corporate' engine, get rid of the Pontiac and buy you a Chevy.

JMHO and yes, I am biased...........I am a PONTIAC PURIST!

Good luck with your project/build.

JMack

Is there any guides that show exactly what parts are used? Can I use my 6x heads and what needs to be done to them? Just take them to a machine shop and ask for ____?

I keep forgetting the way Pontiac Engines work, 450-500rwtq should be plenty for a street car to get to highschool and back and it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg right? I mean that's only like 150rwtq over stock.

[TreySmith]

Hey guys how much power would I pick up having the heads done and how much roughly would it cost?

[65gto69]

Originally Posted by TreySmith

Is there any guides that show exactly what parts are used? Can I use my 6x heads and what needs to be done to them? Just take them to a machine shop and ask for ____?

I keep forgetting the way Pontiac Engines work, 450-500rwtq should be plenty for a street car to get to highschool and back and it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg right? I mean that's only like 150rwtq over stock.

Purchase this book, (How To Build Max Performance Pontiac V-8's, by Jim Hand) and it will tell you all you need to know about building a performance Pontiac motor you are looking for. Also in the back of the book are proven engine builds with specs from Pontiac engine builders, who some frequent this site.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Perf.../dp/1884089674

It is a very good book that all Pontiac enthusiast should have. It shows what parts to use and how to modify and tune, etc.

Mark

[gearbanger]

I think the LS stuff is cool and if you are wanting wow factor then that is one thing, but there is no way in the world that you will get bang for the buck out of that. I built a KRE headed, hyd roller 461 that makes over 550 hp for 6k starting with nothing. It also has over 600 ft lbs of torque. Try to get that with a 6.2. I also have driven it thousands of miles and it run cool in traffic and gets 18 mpg with a 5 speed.

You need to look at b-mans thread about putting an LS1 in a 64 Tempest. You are in for a heck of a project to get that in there and all hooked up. I would say on top of that 12k for the motor, your going to need another 1k for power steering and AC, then you will need different clutch and hydraulic throwout because none of you stock stuff will work. Thats another 1k, or you will need an automatic which will need work to handle the power. Thats also probably 1k. Custom driveshaft, 2-4 hundred. All the mounts and headers, exhaust work etc.

I would say it would be hard to get it done for less that 15k if you did it all yourself and ended up with 450 rwhp and less torque that the 461/462.

[JUDGNOT]

Originally Posted by gearbanger

I built a KRE headed, hyd roller 461 that makes over 550 hp for 6k starting with nothing.

That is impressive. Will you please share with us what parts were used and how you accomplished the build so affordably?

[gearbanger]

I got my heads from KRE early on and I think I paid about $2400 for them, I also got the cam and lifters and timing chain from them that was like $800. I picked up a 67 model 400 out of a bonne for $150 and a stroker kit from summit for $1600. I think I had about $600 in machine work to get the block where I wanted it. So that is about $5500. By the time I got the oil pump, BOP gear, gasket set, valve covers, pushrods, etc., I had close to 6000 in it.

I actually did have the RPM intake, carb, HS rockers, HEI, hooker headers, and oil pan so I didn't count that. There was definitely room to save some money from what I did, but you could also spend alot more if you had to pay someone to assemble it and all that.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by JUDGNOT

That is impressive. Will you please share with us what parts were used and how you accomplished the build so affordably?

Yes, please share your list of parts and services and their associated costs. That 6K figure has my interest piqued, I was wondering how you were able to do a nice build like that for so cheap.

The aluminum heads complete, roller cam & valvetrain setup alone must have killed half of that 6K.

EDIT:I see you didn't count your induction ($600?), oil pan ($250?), rocker arms ($200?), HEI distributor ($200?) or headers ($500?). Nor did you pay for the engine assembly, that makes the 6K figure a lot easier to swallow. Add in my estimates for those items and you have closer to 8K in it.

In the case of my 430 HP 376-cube LS3, it came completely assembled and ready to run for $6,400 including shipping with a 2 year 24K-mile warranty. I still had to buy headers to replace the exhaust manifolds ($620) and an oil pan ($450) so it would fit my chassis. I was able to sell the OEM cast aluminum pan for $160, so my total oil pan cost was a little less than $300.

I could have bought a GM controller and harness for $900 that is necessary to make it run with a manual trans. Instead I chose to run an electronic overdrive auto trans and spent $1700 on a custom controller and harness that will control the engine and trans together and give me cruise control and control the cooling fans, fuel pump, etc. I could have gone cheaper using a modified factory harness, but I spent more and bought the best instead.

Right now I'll have about 450 HP (430 HP engine plus headers). With a simple cam and spring change ($600?) it would easily make 500+ HP, the LS3 engine comes with 320-330 CFM intake ports. Plus the 150# weight savings over an iron-block Pontiac V8 with aluminum heads helps even things up a little too, a bit less weight of it's own to move.

The added cost of the electronics to run the EFI makes it a little more pricey, but not by much over a Pontiac V8. The need for fuel system mods for either engine choice is pretty much a wash, any V8 street car with a 450+ HP engine will need some good money spent on a fuel system ($500?).

So the cost of running the EFI all-aluminum LS-series engine comes out about the same compared to nice aluminum head Pontiac engine. A little more for a cam change in the LS-series engine and the HP is pretty much equal between the two.

For an extra thousand dollars or two at the most you can run the modern EFI engine that's lighter and has very comparable power to the older V8s.

It all depends on what you like.

I like both choices.

[Nicks67GTO]

If I didnt already have most of the stuff together to put a traditional Pontiac back in my GTO i would be going the LS route without hesitation.

I have a 1970 Chevelle im going to turn into a daily driver in a few years and without a doubt, that will be getting an LS.

[72blackbird]

IMO comparing a carbed poncho V-8 w/ a 3-speed non-OD trans to a fuel injected LS V-8 w/ a 4-speed OD trans isn't a fair comparison in terms of mpg- naturally the newer design which is lighter, has less rotating mass, is computer controlled, and has an OD trans will get better mileage. A 7.6l V-8 will also use alot more fuel than a 5.3l V-8, so the cid difference would also play a factor here.

It would be interesting to see what kind of power and mpg a 350P would make if treated to similar gear as an LS1- fuel injection, aluminum heads, roller cam, high-flow exhaust and of course good pistons and rods. I used to pull down 16-20 mpg w/ my original 350P, e-performer, 625 cfm AFB, stock cam and exhaust, so I'd image the good ol' 350P could come close- not bad for a 50+ year-old engine design.

We already know what engine would make more torque, so there no point in going over that.

Geno