[PontGuy]

I was tempted to respond last night but saw you were getting plenty of help.

I never heard of Pontiac cam/crank timing alignment problems. Is he talking about degreeing the cam? Even if it is out a bit it does not sound like you are looking for a race tune. For a driver you can just install the cam straight up and be done with it, definitely not worth paying extra money to have someone degree it. And I wouldn't worry about the cam bearings unless you suspect a problem- cam bearings are not typically a problem area. It sounds to me like the shop just wants to do a high-end job and make extra money.

Changing the cam in the car is easy, I have done this several times. As already said you just have to get the radiator(s) out of the way. If you don't want to do it yourself you should be able to find a shop willing to do this for you, though you would have to pay for the extra work involved.

Getting a little water in the oil pan is not that big a deal, although should be minimized. In addition to raising the back when draining I have lifted the front end when removing the TC cover which tilts the engine back just a bit. I never thought about sucking water out using a wet vac- worth a try.

Pack a clean rag in the oil pan gap when you get the cover off and clean up the old gaskets from the surfaces before going any further. At the end of the job you will still have to clean up little bits and pieces of junk that get down there. Then flush it out with some oil as already mentioned.

You didn't say whether or not you have ever installed a Pontiac cam before. If so then you know the drill and if not then you can get more good advice here. Just curious- what cams are you considering? Never heard of one that cures "stinky exhaust"

Walt

[madtexan]

A little more history guys.

It is a base 350 horse GTO engine with old Hooker tube headers. GM HEI distributor that I recurved (weights and spring changed) based on an article in High Performance Pontiac around 1990.

I installed a HO Performance cam called HC-01 ~20 years ago. I installed it myself and I thought I did it in the car. That's why I was surprised to hear the mechanic say it should be removed. But then I thought that maybe I did it before I installed the engine. I would have used the Green Service Manual for reference. Gettin old and senile.... can't remember exact details This cam has higher lift than RAIII and a higher rpm power curve but tamer than RAIV. I planned to install a higher rpm stall converter to help it run better but never did. I did install Rhodes anti-pump up lifters to help the idle/vacuum smooth out which was rec'd by HO Perf when I bought the cam.


I sent my carb (orig Q-jet) to Cliff Ruggles who was highly rec'd here about 5 yrs back to get it rebuilt and I did that. I thought that would fix the nasty smell. People who have smelled the exhaust said it is running way too rich. We figured it was because the Cam Overlap was too much and it was dumping raw fuel out the exhaust. Since the car didn't get run much, I replaced the gas tank about 7 yrs ago but smell is still there with new tank and fresh gas. I burn 93 Octane from Citgo. Could the smell be caused by the valves not being adjusted right? IT doesn't ping at all when I get on it with 93 Octane Citgo gas.

I think it also lacks in low end torque for a 400 GTO engine. I thought that would be another symptom of having to hot a cam in the car.

I really appreciate all the help. I really want to remedy this problem this fall since the weather is nice to work on & drive the car.

[PontGuy]

I can relate to old and senile, I turned 50 today. Just got back into all of this after a 10+ year layoff and still remembering stuff myself, and also finding that things have changed a bit during the past decade ot two!

If Cliff's carb didn't solve the problem then I doubt the real issue is running rich. But it sounds like you still have the high compression heads which is something that you should think about addressing. Just about everyone has reduced CR to around 9.5:1 or so in order run today's junk gas. Maybe that's the underlying cause? If so reducing the cam duration is probably not going to improve the situation- though I think you are right about it improving drivability.

I have a high lift version of the 068 style cam in my new engine, and currently installing the RA manifolds and 2-1/2" X-pipe exhaust. So understand your thinking.

Walt

[madtexan]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

I can relate to old and senile, I turned 50 today.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY WALT!!!

I also turned 50 this year.

So could the smell be caused by the valves not being adjusted right? It doesn't ping at all when I get on it with 93 Octane Citgo gas. It also doesn't have any color to the exhaust. It is clean looking. I put fuel stabilizer (red stuff) into the gas to stabilize it since it hasn't been started much..... anything related to that?

Would doing a compression test tell me something useful?

My vacuum level is good enough to hold my hideaways shut at idle and the idle isn't that rough either.

Mike

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by madtexan

HAPPY BIRTHDAY WALT!!!

I also turned 50 this year.

So could the smell be caused by the valves not being adjusted right? It doesn't ping at all when I get on it with 93 Octane Citgo gas. It also doesn't have any color to the exhaust. It is clean looking. I put fuel stabilizer (red stuff) into the gas to stabilize it since it hasn't been started much..... anything related to that?

Would doing a compression test tell me something useful?

My vacuum level is good enough to hold my hideaways shut at idle and the idle isn't that rough either.

Mike

I'm not sure about the smell--maybe 40 year old exhaust pipes?--probably not. (My 1968 400 Firebird has its original exhaust pipes--they stink in the garage after driving the car. And Little Wife does not really love it.)

But the idle not being very rough might lead me away from the cam.

A compression test is usually smart. If stock valve train, I believe the nut is just torqued to 20 foot pounds with the cam on its base circle on that valve. Don't overtorque. Adjust the carb at idle too, check the timing. It should probably ping if you get on it with stock compression. Some MaxLead 2000 is what I like.

Oh, I turned 50 in September.

[madtexan]

OK We got something going here.... The 50 yr old club!

I know the exhaust pipes are not original but they are at least 25 yrs old. I never heard that they can cause a smell though. It happens as soon as the car is started. Smell stays in the garage for days.

I do remember when I put the Rhodes lifters in I had to put a stainless washer under each of the rocker arm nuts. I did that because when I tightened them without the washer the nut would bottom out on the stud (reach the ends of the threads) and not apply any pressure to the rocker arms. They were loose without and I thought they would make noise or come off. Could the heads have the wrong studs in them or wrong push rods or something?

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by madtexan

OK We got something going here.... The 50 yr old club!

I know the exhaust pipes are not original but they are at least 25 yrs old. I never heard that they can cause a smell though. It happens as soon as the car is started. Smell stays in the garage for days.

I do remember when I put the Rhodes lifters in I had to put a stainless washer under each of the rocker arm nuts. I did that because when I tightened them without the washer the nut would bottom out on the stud (reach the ends of the threads) and not apply any pressure to the rocker arms. They were loose without and I thought they would make noise or come off. Could the heads have the wrong studs in them or wrong push rods or something?

Rhodes lifters clatter from what I hear. If you are holding the valve off of its seat slightly with this washer, it might very well cause this and might burn valves. A local mechanic that worked on old Pontiacs would really help. I'm afraid to say what to do without seeing it, but this might be the problem.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by madtexan

A little more history guys.

It is a base 350 horse GTO engine with old Hooker tube headers. GM HEI distributor that I recurved (weights and spring changed) based on an article in High Performance Pontiac around 1990.

I installed a HO Performance cam called HC-01 ~20 years ago.

I have a Ram Air III 4-speed with the 3:55 rear that had the original type cam when I got the car. I rebuilt the engine in 1980 using the HC-02 cam from H-O, larger screw in studs, their springs, poly-locks, etc. Everything appears stock from the outside and have the original 28273 carb. In 1980, this cam apparently had a little less lift than the later version HC-02. But this is the HC-02, and the car runs great! With a little more stall speed, I think your HC-01 cam MAY be fine, but I don't remember the HC-01 specs--but I think it was fairly tame on the duration. The duration, not the lift might cause a low end power problem.

I do think the HC-02 would be too much for a stock automatic 400, but you might find the duration specs to review before pulling the cam. The HC-01 was H-O's "one step up" from stock I believe. They knew what they were doing.

[madtexan]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

I have a RAIII 4-speed ith the 3:55 rear that had the original type cam when I got the car.
With a little more stall speed, I think your HC-01 cam MAY be fine, but I don't remember the HC-01 specs--but I think it was fairly tame on the duration. The duration, not the lift might cause a low end power problem.

The HC-01 was H-O's "one step up"

Yes that is what they told me about being a stepped up 068 cam..... but since you have a RAIII block/heads, wouldn't your engine handle the upgrade better than my non RA block? My engine would have come stock with a 067 cam wouldn't it and putting a regular 068 might be just about the limit????? I really don't know but trying to make sense of it all.

I'm sure I have the cam specs at home..... I'll dig them up tonight.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by madtexan

Yes that is what they told me about being a stepped up 068 cam..... but since you have a RAIII block/heads, wouldn't your engine handle the upgrade better than my non RA block? My engine would have come stock with a 067 cam wouldn't it and putting a regular 068 might be just about the limit????? I really don't know but trying to make sense of it all.

I'm sure I have the cam specs at home..... I'll dig them up tonight.

The 4-speed and the 3:55 rear make a bigger difference than the other components. And I have the HC-02 which is quite a step from the HC-01 if I can remember that far back. I stil have an old catalog I think.

[madtexan]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

The 4-speed and the 3:55 rear make a bigger difference than the other components.

Agreed as far as acceleration goes. I have 3:23 open in the car. I have a good posi carrier and a set of aftermarket 3:55 gears I'd love to get put in the car but I cannot find anyone who will set it up for me in the Dallas area.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by madtexan

Agreed as far as acceleration goes. I have 3:23 open in the car. I have a good posi carrier and a set of aftermarket 3:55 gears I'd love to get put in the car but I cannot find anyone who will set it up for me in the Dallas area.

The 4-speed and 3:55 allow you to get to a higher rpm quicker which by-passes any lower rpm power.

A little higher stall speed might really help. The rear does not sound like too big a problem--3:23 sounds ok to me, unless you just want to make it steeper.

A older mechanic that worked on these cars might offer some good advice too.

[madtexan]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

Just curious- what cams are you considering? Never heard of one that cures "stinky exhaust"

Walt

LOL, I didn't catch that at first but have to reply since I now get it!

But seriously I am considering a regular 068 grind. I'm also going to pull the old tube headers and install the D-port RAIII manifolds and a 2 1/2 inch exhaust with X pipe.

Mike

[jpdog357]

Mike,

I have the same issue with being over cammed in my 68. Unfortunately, I don't even know whats in the car as this is the way it came. Low vacuum, poor bottom end power, stink and lots of black smoke on launch.

Let us know what cam you eventually go with as I am thinking of swapping in an 068 grind but don't know what the best options are.

Thanks,

Jason