[drevil1]

Just got home from work, having a cup of coffee then out to the garage. I will let you know what Ive got.
I would definately swap heads with someone before taking the motor apart. Picture me a month ago explaining to my wife how this motorwas what I needed, and now telling her I have to buy a crank and rods while Im in there. She'll kill me in my sleep.

[vtxman]

Originally Posted by drevil1

Picture me a month ago explaining to my wife how this motorwas what I needed, and now telling her I have to buy a crank and rods while Im in there. She'll kill me in my sleep.

I can totally relate. You may need to practice sleeping with one eye open........either that, or get real good at hiding parts in the garage where she won't find them. But then again, she will probably see the credit card bill. What to do......isn't this fun!

Good luck with your build!

[drevil1]

Here's what I found.
1: Pistons are TRW L2262F .030 not .020 like I thought. 4 valve relief 6.7cc
2: FelPro 1016 head gasket .039
3: Block decked to .010 - .012
4: Heads dont appear to be milled, but I really don't know. I took some pics if anyone can tell from the surface or from the comb. chambers. I need a more accurate measuring cup, mine showed almost 100 ml to fill a chamber. That can't be right.

Conclusion with 87cc heads and the #s above I get 8.96 cr.

If I change the head gasket to a .035 thick, I get 9.03 cr.

If I changed heads to 72cc edelbrocks with .039 gasket, I get 10.29 cr.

Is there really that much of a difference from the 9-1 cr to 10.29-1 cr ?

Let me ask this way; Can the new motor with 87cc e-heads at 9-1cr ,have more power/torque than my existing motor, iron head 10-1 cr ,60916 cam ?
Thats what I'm after. If it can't be done at 9-1 cr, I will look to trade heads.

At least I have the whole winter ahead of me. Thanks again.

[HWYSTR455]

What kind of iron heads do you have? What's the condition of the engine you have in the car now? Is the '72 block a thick web block? (most likely) How about the one in the car now?

You could run the engine the way it is now, it would run good, and make good power. It's not optimum, but not terrible by any stretch. You will probably be surprised at how much timing it wants!

The heads are fresh, and would be easiest to barter or trade for 72s, BUT, you may want to hang on to them if you plan on doing a stroker in the future.

You could freshen up the iron heads and throw them on the fresh short block, drive it, and do a long-term stroker build on what you pull out of the car. And in that combo, you could choose just about any cam and target any characteristics you want. You could open the ring gaps a touch and spray the heck out of it! Heh-heh! (don't let anyone shy you away of making power because of the rods either).

You have an engine for the rotation now! Heh-heh!

.

[goatman-68]

I have a 400 +030 and have the 87cc E-Heads. Only difference is I have the L2279F30 pistons which are domed. My block was zero decked and after I massaged the chambers to get rid of possible hot spots I have close to 89cc. With the pistons I have and the heads it calculates out to about 10.4cr. It is a possible option if you want to keep the heads.

[drevil1]

HWYSTR455, the whole reason I'm changing the motor is because it is original #'s matching. 69 ys 400, 62 heads. I want to store it away and take it out of rotation. I would throw my 62's back on the new motor if the 87cc e-heads dont work out. I really cant do the stroker deal now. When I do , it will be forged crank and rods, prof.built. which leads to my reply to goatman-68. I dont have the skills to "build" an engine. I can do cams and bolt on stuff, no problem. I just dont have any experience with bearings, rods,crank, rings, and all the required clearances and little tricks to succesfully assemble a motor.I wish I did, I just can't afford to make one little mistake that would most likely cause the motor to fail. I think you have a proper setup or combination, and if my motor had the right combination the first time, it probably would not have been for sale. I appreciate all of your opinions and advice.
Obviously if you get enough opinions, you are going to hear what you want. I understand aluminum heads can handle higher compression. It is not the optimal setup, o.k. If vtxman had not caught the fact that I had such low compression, I would have never even questioned it. Cliff has made it clear he would like to see 10-1 or better. But for right now, I need to make the best of this setup at 9-1 cr. I would like to hold onto the heads for the future, and try and make them work now. I am willing to go with a hyd. roller setup if that helps my chances. If it did in fact turn out to be a "turd" because of the heads I will throw my 62 heads on, and either trade the heads for 72's or start collecting forged stroker parts. Maybe there is a hyd roller that will make this combo work . Anybody know? Thanks, Joe

[taalltheway]

I think the problem is that everybody here seems to compare your combo with a theoretical optimum engine. I think waht you have is pretty decent. With the stock rotating assembly you should not rev it too high anyway so a big cam will not give you the best results. They make their most power a very high rpms. What you have is a good stockengine with good flowing heads. I would consider going to a much smaller cam. In my experience a RAIV-cam has good driveability in a 455 but is too wild for a 400. Pontiac put these cams only in the wildest manual transmission 400s for a good reason. If you want the "freight-train"-characteristic with punch down low you need a smaller cam. Here you have two options:

1. Rhoads lifters

The will make your cam act about 10 degrees smaller at lower rpms but restore all the glory above 3500 rpms.

2. A new smaller cam that should be around 220@0,050. I would even consider the much criticized Comp cams for your engine since they tend to increase dynamic compression in low compression engines.

I am sure from my experience that your engine will produce much more power in the low- and midrange where a driver usually operates the engine 95% of the time. It will feel much stronger and will not need a high stall converter.

This would be the cheapest fix for your problem. I would keep the 87cc-heads because if you want a real powerful engine you will have to go to forged internals. Once you do that buying a strokerkit is not more expensive than staying at 400 cui and with the popular 462cui-kits your 87cc-heads would be right on the money. So keep them for your future expansionplans. Otherwise you will have to swap heads again. And keep you RAIV-cam for the bigger future engine too.

[vtxman]

Your combination with 8:5 - 9:0 CR will work, it just may not reach its full potential.

After 1970, the factory lowered the compression for emission reasons etc. It's just that the Ram Air IV cam is not designed for the lower compression, and will be a "turd" in a 400 with compression under 10:0 to 1.

Given your situation, your best option would be to make a careful Cam selection that will compliment your combo. There are High Performance cams designed to work with lower compression engines. These cams are generally smaller cams that generate additional cylinder pressure to compensate for the lack of stactic compression.

I am not an expert on these cams, but I do believe the XE grinds from Comp are designed and work well when lower compression is used. The XE 268 comes to mind. Again I have not used these cams myself, but read a lot about them.

I would reach out to "Screaming Chief" or "Mr Pbody" for help with a cam selection. I believe Mr Pbody has a lot of experience building engines using the Comp XE cams.

I would not use the Ram Air IV cam. I understand that the Crower 60916 has worked in similar combinations and is not as sensitive to compression ratio.