[geeteeohguy]

Never been to a Tiger Run. I did meet Jim Wangers in 2008 at a small Pontiac show in Madera, California, which is in my "backyard". He signed the protecto plate for my '65 GTO, commented on my '67 GTO convertible, and signed a copy of Glory Days, which I bought. I told him I'd been wanting to meet him for over 30 years, which was true. I found him to be absolutely charming and gracious, and a Car Guy to the core. I thanked him for his contribution to The Great One, and told him I appreciated him taking the time to come to such a small local event. But that says it all about the man. He cares about these cars and he cares about the people who restore, own, and drive them. To me, the fact that he was a little "slippery" back in the day when he was promoting these cars is A-OK. Part of the game, and part of history, now. Heck, if there were no Riger GTO's, think of how DULL this thread would be!!! Great stories from all yu guys out there, and keep 'em coming. Man, Don, you sure put poor JW in a spot.....

[SD421]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Man, Don, you sure put poor JW in a spot.....

And Jim Wangers was still courteous enough after that to take a picture with me!!
And you are right Jeff, without J. Wangers there probably wouldnt even be this forum to share stories and all that good stuff.

Don

BTW here are some pics I found on the web. I hope its ok. 3 pics of the Red car and a recreation of the Blue car.

[Tenney]

That both PHR and Cars magazine used factory-provided press photos for the exterior shots, we can’t determine what car each publication was actually driving.

And ..

As the engine shots are not stock shots provided by the same source, it’s quite likely they’re not of the same car in the exterior press photos.

Royal began swapping 421’s from the get-go. It’s what they did. Maybe the engine shots are of one of those? Nocturne blue was not a one-off color.

In today’s terms, Hennessey had a ZR1 in a new Camaro before I ever saw a stock one on the street.

About magazines, in general …

As there are people involved, mistakes will be made. And there will be inconsistencies - particularly when much has been written on the same topic over the course of time ("Did George Washington have baby teeth or wooden teeth when he chopped down the cherry tree?").

I came across an article that has Jim stating that the Blue Car pulled the Red Car home. All others quote him stating the inverse, though. As does his book. And he’ll report same when asked.

There’s another write-up where Mr. Wangers “admits” to the 421 in the red car, though saying he had it installed it after the test. This was years before “officially” coming forward. Perhaps he was “giving in a bit”, because so many had already seen the 421 in the Red Car. I don’t know.

Folks get misquoted sometimes.

In the recent Muscle Car Enthusiast article on the Red Car’s clean-up, even the great Paul Zazarine (RIP) had Scott stating a 421 came out of the Red Car during clean-up. It was a 428 block. If I can tell the difference, Scott sure can. Mistakes happen. He even had me using the word “overwhelming” in a sentence. Not sure that’s ever happened until just now. But it was an excellent, thorough write-up, all the same. Jim Wangers told Paul it was his favorite.

John V. has done an incredible job scouring press and decoding build sheets, which we certainly enjoy and appreciate. And reading Jim’s and Milt’s books will only add to this arsenal of info.

And so …

Without surmising, we know:

The Car and Driver GTO v. GTO test was the brainchild of Jim Wangers. He created it – and there’s simply no single person more integral to it.

David E. bought it. Jim personally spec’d the Red Car, and hand-picked the Blue Car, for the task. He has always maintained that the Red Car was purpose-built for the acceleration portion (even before he copped to the 421), and that the Blue Car was to be for the handling component.

Jim’s known as a hands-on guy, and knew how to spec things - as his competitors in Super Stock and on Woodward would attest. He’s not a mechanical ninny.

The Car and Driver test was a big deal for Jim at the time. And became a bit bigger a deal over the course of time. He may, or may not, recall which car’s option specs were used on Car and Driver’s data page in the magazine. And he may not even care. But rest-assured he’s not forgotten what was driving each one, and why.

There were reasons to keep the 421 on the DL for a while, obviously. Can’t see any point in stretching the truth now that this information has been disclosed, though. I don’t think Jim’s lying.