[Philg]

Looking to get my 74 Formula Rally II's the correct color. Reading the Rally II thread in the 70-73 tech section seems for Charcoal Gray the best options are PPG DDL # 32947 and OEM Paints 11030. I further read the PPG number is old and someone on another board says it crosses to Phantom grey metallic. It doesn't, too dark. I called OEM Paints today and their spray cans are $60 each, minimum order of 3 and add shipping. Seems like highway robbery so I am searching some more.

1st anybody have 1 or 2 cans of the OEM paint they can sell me?
secondly anybody ever have it matched and have the paint code?
lastly does anybody have a good cross for that PPG number?

Attached is a pic of the gray I am going for. I already wasted money on Eastwoods Charcoal gray that comes off brownish and several duplicolors and plastiKotes but if you have any exact details on how to get the gray I am looking for please let me know.

Thank You for your help.

[68bird400HO]

To me it appears that the charcoal on the wheel in your picture is way lighter than the original PPG 32947 formula. So, are you looking to match that wheel or looking for the original color?

Like you, I have searched and searched for a rattle can that was close to original and that I didn't need to take a loan out for (eg OEM paints). The best match I have found is SEM Trim Paint #39033. It is really close to the Eastwood paint but doesn't have the brown tint at all. It is purely charcoal gray. It has the fine metallic like the original PPG and comes out fairly matte. I laid down a coat of satin clear over it which makes the sheen really close to original. I ordered it from O'Reillys. They didn't have it on the self but can get it. I was about $13 a rattle can. I used less than one can on all five of my wheels.

If you want perfect and you can't get the PPG formula mixed up near you, I would check out the phantom gray. I have seen pictures of it and thought it looked really good but I have not seen it in person. Pictures can be deceiving sometimes. With that said, here are some pictures....

The first picture is of the paints I used on the face of the rim. The next two show a small piece I sprayed with the SEM vs an original paint wheel. The last picture is a comparison of the SEM charcoal to the Eastwood charcoal. The Eastwood is on your right hand side when looking at the picture. You can see how brown it is vs the SEM.

[Philg]

Your obviously a detailed person like myself. Your right about any picture. You have to consider angle and lighting and then kinda guess what the color really is. Thanks for mentioning the other points I am considering. Not only do you have to look at the gray tone but also metalflake content and finish tone.

I was going for the original color but the online pictures I saw showed it as kind of a dull, flat, primer grey. The OEM paint looked very close but had a little more brilliance to it with slightly more metallic and a little lighter tone.

Sem is one I hadn't considered. Thank you, I will look that one up. If you have a straight on face shot of that SEM painted Rim it would be appreciated.

Here's what I am looking at to make my decision. Is the Phantom gray (far right at end) what you saw or thought it was? This is too dark IMO.

Pic 1 "Original", 2 & 3 PPG 32947, 4 different light on the OEM from my 1st post, 6 Phantom Gray Metallic

[beargfr]

I went to my local DuPont jobber and had them mix me up a pint of Nason Fulthane Single Stage Urethane. It's a Chrysler Charcoal, Code AA9 , Year 1982 - B8270 IB. I don't have any wheels around here with good original paint so I don't know how close it is to perfect, but I do like the way my wheels turned out - if that helps. If you just get a pint, that's plenty to do 4 wheels and cheap enough to try/discard if you don't like it.

(The silver I used is also a Nason SS Urethane - GM 1969 Argent Silver - 9692 IB)

Bear

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Philg

Your obviously a detailed person like myself. Your right about any picture. You have to consider angle and lighting and then kinda guess what the color really is. Thanks for mentioning the other points I am considering. Not only do you have to look at the gray tone but also metalflake content and finish tone.

I was going for the original color but the online pictures I saw showed it as kind of a dull, flat, primer grey. The OEM paint looked very close but had a little more brilliance to it with slightly more metallic and a little lighter tone.

Sem is one I hadn't considered. Thank you, I will look that one up. If you have a straight on face shot of that SEM painted Rim it would be appreciated.

Here's what I am looking at to make my decision. Is the Phantom gray (far right at end) what you saw or thought it was? This is too dark IMO.

Pic 1 "Original", 2 & 3 PPG 32947, 4 different light on the OEM from my 1st post, 6 Phantom Gray Metallic

I am doing a nut & bolt resto on my 71 TA so I am also being extremely picky. You can see in my pics above a close up of the original color. It has a slight metallic to it and a bit of a sheen. Looking at the pictures you added, I think #3 of the PPG looks too light. I would guess that if someone claims they used the formula that is was mixed wrong. Picture #4 looks the same as #3, too light. I don't know if it is just the lighting or not. Pics #1, you can't argue with. When looking at the 40 year old original paint on a very used wheel, it often looks chalky/dirty and could be somewhat faded. I cleaned mine up a bit and found that semi-gloss sheen on it. Picture number #2 looks correct. It is hard to see the sheen or metallic in that picture. Picture #5 is the one I had seen of the Phantom gray. I think it looks a lot like #2 and #1, but again, it is really hard to tell the sheen and metallic at that angle in the shade.

When I first laid down the SEM, I though it was too dark, so, I did some more digging. The response I got was that Eastwood was the best match and was pretty much the standard for restoring these wheels so I ordered a can. I sprayed the second wheel with that and compared the two. IMO the SEM was wayyyy better. It is a bit lighter than the Eastwood and doesn't have that brown to it. I figured if the Eastwood is acceptable by most judging standards then the SEM should be find. You can drive yourself batty trying to match this perfectly and I don't that at the end of the day anyone will be able to tell for sure anyway. To me the SEM is so close that I decided to use it and move on to the next issue.

Here are a few more pictures. The first one is a front shot of the same wheels above. The one on the right is the Eastwood, left is SEM. Second shot is the wheel on my car. It looks darker in the dark garage. Third is an original paint wheel where I taped off some smal l areas and test sprayed a few colors. From left to right Duplicolor (too metallic), Eastwood (too brown), then the SEM.

[Philg]

I would agree with all your statements on the 5 pics. Thanks for adding your pics and taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with me. It really helped. looks Like I'm ordering up some SEM.

I would say to anyone looking at his pics of the Eastwood charcoal gray and not think it's that brown. Take a look at the pic I attached of someone else's green firebird with light reflecting directly at eastwood's "charcoal gray". It's a crime they call that gray. I wasted money on 2 cans of it myself.

It would be interesting to see if someone adds pics to this string of other brands of spray can Charcoal Gray like from OER, Details, Seymore etc.

Best of luck on your 71 TA. I appreciate your eye for detail.

The Blue Formula Rim pic is mine. Don't know what color the insert is. It's almost black, but not for much longer.

Thanks again my Friend,
Phil

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Philg

I would agree with all your statements on the 5 pics. Thanks for adding your pics and taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with me. It really helped. looks Like I'm ordering up some SEM.

I would say to anyone looking at his pics of the Eastwood charcoal gray and not think it's that brown. Take a look at the pic I attached of someone else's green firebird with light reflecting directly at eastwood's "charcoal gray". It's a crime they call that gray. I wasted money on 2 cans of it myself.

It would be interesting to see if someone adds pics to this string of other brands of spray can Charcoal Gray like from OER, Details, Seymore etc.

Best of luck on your 71 TA. I appreciate your eye for detail.

The Blue Formula Rim pic is mine. Don't know what color the insert is. It's almost black, but not for much longer.

Thanks again my Friend,
Phil

Yeah, I have a can of the Eastwood stuff I would like to recoup my $$ on. I guess I should have sold it before posting my results here, LOL.

Just to note, I think the SEM is really close but again, it does look dark unless the sun it on it (as you can see in my pics). But, I think the original color does to some degree too. I bought the Eastwood because I had already sprayed the SEM and thought it was too dark. Then I sprayed the Eastwood and, well, you can see the comparison, it is even a bit darker, and brownish.

I did a little research on the Details line of paints. They are formulated for Chevy wheels. Chevy used the same silver PPG DDL formula that Pontiac used so I think their rally wheel paint is a good match. However, they use a different PPG DDL for their charcoal than Pontiac used. Chevy had a darker, blackish insert on their wheels. Therefore, I never tried the Details charcoal.

BTW, nice Formy 455...

[Mean Green]

These rims were shot with PPG 2847 Dove Grey, 8586 Argent Silver, 32947 Charcoal.

[getmygoat]

I would suggest searching the archives... lots of info already written about this topic - I just went through it a few months ago, so you could search for my posts to see some of it - but just search for rally wheel paint and you'll get loads of info - note there at least two charcoal gray colors - one is darker and is pre-1970 or so - another is lighter and is post-1970.

I had paint made up based on the formula you will find in the archives - that seems to be the lighter charcoal grey - which you might be looking for anyway so you could be done. I actually had the paint store match the color of my original spare tire that has never been run - and it is a darn good match.

Anyway, its all in the archives.

[Philg]

WOW Mean Green. That's the best pic I have seen of the Correct 32947. The natural light and angle cleanly shows how it looks. You don't have to decipher shadows or angles here. Do you have a shot of the backsides you could share?

Luckily, Yesterday I did find a place that can identify the PPG number and not cross it to the Phantom Gray.

Here's some more detail for others.
PPG DDL #32947
Name: Charcoal Gray 70 -79 Wheel color paint
Mixing formula:

Color Units (cumulative)
384 Yellow 20
311 White 44
321 Blue 74
358 Black 224
349 Poly 694
DX 265 Flat 984

There is a Dupont supplier near me that can put paint into spray cans but Dupont cannot cross this code as I am told because dupont never made wheel paint. Seems the individual colors formula did not help them either.

So I will mix it with reducer and use one of those Prevail pressurized sprayers with the glass container bottom. Total $60

Someone else hoping to find it in a rattle can shared the pic below. Again sometimes it's about how much pain and time to get there. I'm a glutton for punishment but that $6 can isn't as far off as most I have seen especially if they shot over it with some clear matte finish. A little light, missing some metallics but for some folks 10 minutes to the home improvement store and your back painting aint bad. The upper left (11 o'clock) section is Duplicolor 0331 charcoal gray metallic. Waay too metallic.

[rolling money pits]

is that duplicolor number the same as DS-GM318?

[Philg]

I don't think so. He said there's some forum out there claiming a chrysler color matches. He tried duplicolor Perfect Match "duplicates original Chrysler cars" full part # BCC0331. He also tried their BNS0604 precision gray that he said was too light and silverish. He didn't send me a pic of that one.

[rolling money pits]

gotcha...

thats the color i used when i did mine years ago, and i thought it came out pretty good.

revisionist history here, as i have no photos ( that i'm aware of ) to back up my claim. but i think it looked a like the PPG color in mean green's post.

[GoatDr]

I've done 3 or four sets and I think one of the biggest variables is the amount of coats that are sprayed. The charcoal gray is one of those colors that gets darker as each coat is sprayed on. Even if everybody used the same color paint the final color would vary widely depending on how heavy the coats were sprayed and how many coats were sprayed. Just my 2 cents.

[69Customs]

I used Duplicolor 318 Charcoal and Duplicolor 340 Silver for mine in rattle cans back in 2003. I think the silver is a little brighter than stock. But thats what I like. Can't believe its held up all these years. But wheels were sand blasted, POR 15 black then sprayed with self-etch primer in rattle can(It will bite into the POR 15) Then painted with the duplicolor.

[68bird400HO]

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ly+wheel+paint

I found the thread that Getmygoat is referring to and I think there are some interesting results in there. He shows original paint dark and light charcoal wheels side by side. In one of the last posts, he tried Year Ones dark charcoal and I think it looks similar to Mean Greens charcoal in the above pics. However, it still seems lighter than the dark charcoal wheel in his post. Again hard to tell because for sure but it would be interesting to see that original paint wheel next to Year One's charcaol.

I think there are a number of take-aways from all of this information...

1) There definitely appears to be more than one charcoal through the years. The original charcoal on my KNs seems to be a little darker than Mean Green's charcoal above. If you want to be correct for your year, you almost need to see an original of your specific coded wheel, probably dated coded too.

2) What version of the charcoal does DLL-32947 match, and, as was mentioned, are there different version of that formula to match different time frames. The formula Phil lists above is different than the formula for this 32947 that someone else posted on an older thread in the archives.

3) Many factors affect the resulting color. I am sure there were variances in the darkness of this charcoal from the factory on the same code and year wheels. Also, as GoatDr mentions, factors like the number of layers will affect the darkness. When I finished my 5 wheels, I set them side by side and I did have one that was noticeably lighter. I scuffed it and layed down another layer and then it matched the others. I did put down a pretty have coat of the charcoal on all of my wheels.

[Philg]

Hey 68bird400HO. Thanks for that link. It's one I hadn't read before. I guess when I was going to get the color locked in for the back I would have found it but that has good info too.

Since we all hold the hope that there is some $4 spray can out there that is perfect I have been doing a quick search on the rattle can numbers guys have been posting here and in other posts. Even a can someone used as recently as 2009 is no longer either a recognized number or they changed the color. Interestingly one code for charcoal is now for a red primer.

Unfortunately for anyone looking to do their rims today the older posts while very helpful is limited in pointing someone to an exact product to buy except for a rare few. That was one of the reasons I reached out for help.

The argent silver seems easy to nail down. The charcoal and backside gray are harder. Even in trying to nail the perfect charcoal gray we know GM had variances, skill and quality varied so for me if I end up a few shades left or right of "The holy grail" I'll be content, as long as it's the shade I'm happy with.

I did learn from that number of coats tip though. I will pay attention to that tidbit.

Thanks Guys.

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by Mean Green

These rims were shot with PPG 2847 Dove Grey, 8586 Argent Silver, 32947 Charcoal.

Wheel #2 above is my wheel and they are perfect...

Mean Green's wheel are dead nuts. IMO

[Philg]

I'm just documenting this for others who are maybe like me. I can take a spray can and achieve perfection and had multiple successes with praval sprayers in the past but this time I had some difficulty.

I found another PPG store that recognized the 32947 number. The first store added $20 on my second visit and seemed to make things more complicated. 32947 is only available in PPG's DBU line (Basecoat, Clearcoat). The label says to spray over this with a flat clearcoat. The formula on the label of the paint I bought is different than what I listed earlier. I assume either I was originally misled or I have read some folks get 32947 mixed and it is lighter than expected.

Formula of gray pictured below

Black 65.7
Fine Alum 62.4
Blue 13.1
White 12.5
Flattening 6.6
Clear 72.3

I have a test set of wheels that I painted just the charcoal on. I was told to mix the paint 4 to 1. I have a gallon of duplicolor professional specialty reducer leftover from doing some engine touch ups that was done with centauri acrylic enamel and a preval sprayer that went perfectly. I assumed the same would happen here but not exactly that easy.

The paint came out of the sprayer spitting strands and spots in a very thin line. I changed prevail cannisters and removed the bottom tube screen but it changed nothing. I still had a hard time achieving coverage without running. I assume either more reducer was needed, type of reducer, type of paint (PPG Deltron DBU) or the metallic in the paint made this more challenging. Temperature of material and garage were 72. Maybe someone else can tell me what I was doing wrong. I used a little less than 4 oz on all 4 rims. I had some runs so lightly sanded and the second coat came out better. I would suggest you buy 8 oz at a minumum for 4 rims.

Below is a shot of my rim taken last week and I sprayed some formica samples to make sure the clearcoat would not interact poorly with the basecoat. 2nd pic is inside light and #3 is outdoors but it is cloudy today. Maybe the closeups will help others tell the color of the gray. It has a slight hammered appearance but not in texture. I am pleased with the color. The paint is soft without the clearcoat in that you can ding it with your fingernail. I was told no hardener was needed as the clearcoat will take care of that. The shots are before any clearcoat is applied.

Thanks to all for your help.