[th442]

My car was built 1st week of March 69. Do I use the early (short) style water pump or the later longer one? I would think either would work, but want the fan blade correctly positioned in the shroud.

[gtohurstjudge]

I'm not sure which pump you have, but you need to understand that
where the fan is in the shroud is not the issue. As far as the shroud is concerned,
either pump will work, but the problem is, if you install the wrong pump, the water
pump pulley will not line up with the other pulleys. You can convert to a long pump
if your car had the short nosed one if you buy a pulley for a long pump. I did this conversion
on my car 35 years ago.

[Red Goat]

You need a 9796351 water pump to be correct for your car.

['ol Pinion head]

the short snout "351" is correct, documented time & time again. Only reason fan spacer could get in the mix is if your car runs a 4 blade fan or a 5 blade flex fan. There are 5 different length spacers used with 4 blade & 5 blade flex fans. Have a list of correct applications for factory spacers that a good friend & I just put together.

[71 T/A]

I have a 69 GTO built the first week of March 69 and it came with the long snout, correctly dated pump.

[Bet Winner]

What is the earliest dated long nose pump that anyone has seen?

[Red Goat]

Originally Posted by 71 T/A

I have a 69 GTO built the first week of March 69 and it came with the long snout, correctly dated pump.

Do you have your build sheet? If so, what pully is listed?

I have never seen a 69 GTO with the 124 water pump. Firebirds used them in 69 so there would be some correctly date coded, but unless I had the build sheet at the pully designated was for the long snout water pump, I would use the 351 pump.

[gtohurstjudge]

The reason I converted my pump to a long nose one is that
the long nose is readily available as it fits all Pontiac v-8's from 69-79.
Back then the short nosed ones were hard to come by. Don't know what the
situation is now as far as availability.

[69Customs]

When I got a replacement pump at the parts store years ago they ask me which one I had. The parts store claimed that the short pump was listed and only used for the first 6 mo of 1969 then they switched to the long pump. Sept-Feb.
I did like gtohurstjudge did due to availability of the long pump.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by 69Customs

When I got a replacement pump at the parts store years ago they ask me which one I had. The parts store claimed that the short pump was listed and only used for the first 6 mo of 1969 then they switched to the long pump. Sept-Feb.
I did like gtohurstjudge did due to availability of the long pump.

Tthe parts store is just reading the asterisk in their parts book. Original Pontiac master parts books also mention use this pully when replacing short "351" wp with tall "`124" wp. From years of pulling them, the short "351" waterpumps were used much later than February. How about documented as original on a low mile 07A built Fremont GTO? In the early 90's I first started pulling these for date codes & had many many of them rebuilt. At that time I pulled two original "351" wp's off original June & July built '69 350 firebirds. '69 firebirds must have gone to the "124"s very late in the model year. I will start watching for earliest "124" pump as I still pull parts off cars that have sat since the mid to late 70's.

[A Schab]

Is there any chance that the june and july birds were 68 built and are infact very early cars? 69 prodution ran to 11/69 at norwood so you could have june and july built 69 cars that were built in both 68 and 69.

[marshallbeach]

Is it the engine casting date or the car build date that would determine short or long water pump? I would think the water pump was installed at the time of engine assembly,
but it seems like the pulley would have been installed during the car's final assembly.

[Flowjoe]

So it seems that the possibility exists for non-F-bodies to have either the long or the short pump in the 2nd half of '69.

While we have owned our '69 GTO since '70 I have no way of knowing what pump it had prior to a change out in the mid '80s. What I do know is that the pulleys were not changed. So if the belts line up correctly then I can use the pulley number/application to determine correct water pump usage for my car (as it needs a new pump after 25-ish years ). Correct?

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by A Schab

Is there any chance that the june and july birds were 68 built and are infact very early cars? 69 prodution ran to 11/69 at norwood so you could have june and july built 69 cars that were built in both 68 and 69.

Missed this post earlier, the '69 Firebirds I mentioned were built in June & July of '69. Wrote down the VIN & cowl tag numbers off each at the time, as both honestly weren't that eaten up with rust & could be bought cheap as builder cars.

The two groove non a/c pulleys & orig "351" dated pump I pulled off the early June 69 built Bird ended up going on a '69 RAIV Judge built in May out of Pontiac plant. The Judge was presented as a documented 33K mile car when I examined it in OH & my customer bought it & I have little reason to doubt the mileage claim. Aftermarket short 69 waterpump, battery cables, battery & tires were only things that had been added to it. New owner desired the manual strg parts being pulled & put in a box, & "correct" P/S set-up being added, along with correct two piece rotors & correct dated calipers on the car. I suggested otherwise, but obliged in putting together a really nice disc changeover. When Phil later sold the car (after going Gold at GTOAA Nats) the next owner pulled the added p/s & concours restored disc set-up off the car. Made sense to me as the car was built as runner, not a cruise-in driver.

[Flowjoe]

Going to add this info to this thread.

Car is a '69 GTO built at Fremont 06B:


Car was purchased repossessed off Hoover Pontiac's lot in June of 1970 by my parents (I was 6 1/2 at the time). OE water pump changed out in early to mid '80s by my Dad and myself with parts house pump (whatever was cheap knowing my Dad - LOL). Car currently has ~50K miles. Other than two repaints and an engine detail it is unmolested. Here is the belt alignment:



Spacer number:



Pulley number:



Here are the numbers of the pump installed in the '80s: