[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

So according to your ideals, if I run a Small Block Chevy with the Factory designed Pontiac aluminum heads Casting #987, it is a Pontiac and can be run at Pontiac events?

Eric made an excellent post. The question remains 'What constitutes a Pontiac Engine?'

"1) designed and built by Pontiac Factory"

a) Pontiac Trans-Ams were offered with the SB Chevy Engine and sold as a Pontiac Vehicle and what they considered to be a Pontiac Engineered Engine. Same Deal with the Buick Turbo Engine design in the TA. Pontiac Engineers changed the Buick castings to Pontiac castings to fit into the TA.

b) Pontiac Engineering contracted with companies like Brodex to offer the Aluminum SB Chevy Performance Heads with a Pontiac LOGO on them and a Pontiac Part Number.

C) Pontiac Big Chief Heads had a Pontiac Part Number and LOGO.

All of the Parts were designed by PONTIAC Engineers employed by General Motors.

So you see that for every reason why the other parts ARE NOT a Pontiac, there are examples where they considered to be a Pontiac Engine.

Again, this is a excellent description of assumed parts and assumed relationships:

2) retains a predominant number of critical factory dimensions and architecture; so that most major factory parts could be bolted on. Bore spacing is the biggie, head bolt pattern (at least the factory 10 in their normal places), timing cover bolt pattern, cam lobe spacing, etc. Note that I didn't give a black & white list....the use of the word predominant is intentionally gray.

Personally I think that when we want to call it a Pontiac Engine we conveniently forget some differences. When we want to disqualify the engine we think of things that will disqualify the engine. Purely a subjective deal.

Slowbird summed it up well:

"This is all fun to talk about but really if someone did spend the money to develop a block with everything to go along with it and people agreed that it is a Pontiac. Just how many people would actually fork over the $$$ to buy one? Maybe 5 people in the whole Pontiac community? There are parts and pieces out there now that have proven to make real good power with what we currently have and not many people have spend the $$$ to buy those. Just my opinion "

It seems that most people will not get into a engineering discussion because the engineering means nothing to them. The show guys bought the cars for that deal and are happy. The street guys are happy as they CAN make more power vs the stock stuff. Most every part for the engine is re-poped today. 5 Guys will be pushing the limit of the current design. Everyone seems happy to stay right where they are in the program.
PMD is dead so there is and never will be any Pontiac Excitement from PMD or Government Motors.

Yep, George, I saw a very nice TA/Camaro at the Texas Mile. Nice "what-if" car for a guy who wants to be different. Expensive but different. Maybe that is the actual DNA of a Pontiac guy: Willing to spend more money to be "Different".

Tom Vaught

[Torment]

Maybe that is the actual DNA of a Pontiac guy: Willing to spend more money to be "Different".

Tom Vaught


Absolutely! And for someone like me that grew up racing on the streets far more than on a track - back before we knew it was a bad thing to do of course - beating the belly button brands was always that much sweeter

[Chris Petersen]

Originally Posted by Torment

Maybe that is the actual DNA of a Pontiac guy: Willing to spend more money to be "Different".

Tom Vaught


Absolutely! And for someone like me that grew up racing on the streets far more than on a track - back before we knew it was a bad thing to do of course - beating the belly button brands was always that much sweeter

X 1000!!

Ask anyone, I HAVE to be different, and for god's sake, dont tell me it cant be done...lol....I will dye trying to make it so.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I remember back in the early 90's when the E-head came out to replace the #614's & 722's. An awful lot of Pontiac people were dead set against the heads and a lot of slamming when on.
Then the used ported factory heads flowing less were going for $2500 and the E-heads complete were $1400.00
That's what brought me BACK to Pontiac after 20 years.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The Pontiac forum boards.

The BBC 632 is a great cheap HP combo and all ya have to do is Put on a set of Pontiac logo valve covers.

[johnta1]

What's the HP and the price for it on the 632 BBC?
(like a Sonny or whoever it is)

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by johnta1

What's the HP and the price for it on the 632 BBC?
(like a Sonny or whoever it is)

You have internet. Look it up. Then look at the durability built in.
But here a killer deal. And it's a little motor!!!!!!!!!!!!

COMPLETE from carb to pan. crank trigger, vacuum pump, etc. just add headers and go.

615 CU. IN. 14.5 PONTIAC 1X4 PRO STREET PUMP GAS ENGINE (1000hp)
DESIGNED TO OPERATE ON 92 OCTANE PUMP GAS *** Cross Country Endurance Application 925 HP @ 6500 RPM
1000 HP On Pump Gas!!
Complete and Dyno Tested
PRICE $31,200.00

Features:
Dart Big-M block with ARP studs
4340 internally balanced crank
Eagle steel rods w/L-19 bolts
SAR Venolia pistons with tool steel wrist pins
Total Seal rings
Clevite 77 bearings
SAR/Brodix "Pro Stock" 14.5 degree aluminum head
T&D shaft mounted rocker system
Crane billet roller timing set
SAR/Crane hydraulic roller camshaft
Isky hydraulic roller lifters
Manton 7/16" pushrods
ATI balancer
Internal Moroso Billet pump w/ Moroso aluminum oil pan
MSD cranktrigger distributor
Moroso wires
Holley 1150 carb
Sonny's aluminum valve covers
MSD platinum starter
Moroso vacuum system
Manley valves

[PONTIAC DUDE]

SONNY'S 632 CU. IN. PONTIAC 1X4 ENGINE 1225 HP.
SONNY'S ALSO OFFERS A 1315 H.P. VERSION, WHICH INCLUDES FULLY CNC'D PORTED HI PORT HEADS, AND PRO STOCK VALVE TRAIN UPGRADE
Complete and Dyno Tested
PRICE $33,800.00

632 CU. IN. PONTIAC 1X4 1225 HP - Sonny's Racing Engines & Components
Click image to enlarge
Picture may show optional equipment
Features:
Dart Big "M" block with ARP studs with bronze bushings
Crower/Callies 4.750" stroke 4340 internally balanced crankshaft
SAR/ Manley Pro Series Steel rods
SAR /Venolia pistons
1.031 Tool Steel Wrist Pins
Total Seal rings
SAR/Brodix 14.5 "As Cast" degree aluminum heads featuring Manley titanium valves
T&D shaft mounted rocker system with needle bearing roller tips and one piece rocker bar for endurance
SAR/Dart Intake Ported, with SAR/Custom 1350 CFM Carb
Jesel Belt Drive
Sonny's Custom roller camshaft

These are basic crate engine designs that parts are available.

Now ask Scott Rex or John Langer they have in their................... one off motors.