[70RAlll]

Here is a good clear picture of a 1970 RA IV with 18K miles. The car sat in a underground garage(the kind where a house is build in a hillside, we all have seen these style homes) and the bottom of the car was rusted from sitting in basement flooding, otherwise looked like a new car. Notice the spoiler, that is a style the majority of us here have never seen yet all of our cars started life with this style. I have only seen this one(car produced 1971 after the strike) ...GM had to produce a 3 bolt mount kit for the new spoilers(ones that we all have) look at the indentations on the 3 center bolts. Original 1970 TA's Spoilers did not need the spacer on these three mount points..
Anyway, you can see the shade of black is not shiney...I was under this car(the owner has a lift at his house) and saw this up close, will bet a lot that this was not repainted but was original ecoat.... then again, guys we have all been wrong before, including me.. So, maybe I was seeing what I wanted to on this car and the others I have disassembled.. ?? who knows...

Oh.. Added two extra photos.. One is a correct 70 front spoiler shot. Notice the round hole drilled in it..rarely will you see front wheel spoilers with this hole(cause they have mostly been replaced).. And the original '270 carb. Notice the yellow plastic choke pulloff..never see that on restored cars.. always the grey or white one. I have only seen 1 NOS 70 choke pull off ... still have it.. anyway,. thought everyone would like these 70 pictures..I have 100's of pictures like this.. really need to get my bopok done one day..

[keith k]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

Here is a good clear picture of a 1970 RA IV with 18K miles. The car sat in a underground garage(the kind where a house is build in a hillside, we all have seen these style homes) and the bottom of the car was rusted from sitting in basement flooding, otherwise looked like a new car. Notice the spoiler, that is a style the majority of us here have never seen yet all of our cars started life with this style. I have only seen this one(car produced 1971 after the strike) ...GM had to produce a 3 bolt mount kit for the new spoilers(ones that we all have) look at the indentations on the 3 center bolts. Original 1970 TA's Spoilers did not need the spacer on these three mount points..
Anyway, you can see the shade of black is not shiney...I was under this car(the owner has a lift at his house) and saw this up close, will bet a lot that this was not repainted but was original ecoat.... then again, guys we have all been wrong before, including me.. So, maybe I was seeing what I wanted to on this car and the others I have disassembled.. ?? who knows...

Oh.. Added two extra photos.. One is a correct 70 front spoiler shot. Notice the round hole drilled in it..rarely will you see front wheel spoilers with this hole(cause they have mostly been replaced).. And the original '270 carb. Notice the yellow plastic choke pulloff..never see that on restored cars.. always the grey or white one. I have only seen 1 NOS 70 choke pull off ... still have it.. anyway,. thought everyone would like these 70 pictures..I have 100's of pictures like this.. really need to get my bopok done one day..

Thanks Bill - good reference pics.

[Transamric]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

And the original '270 carb. Notice the yellow plastic choke pulloff..never see that on restored cars.. always the grey or white one.

I too have had true NOS (one in a Rochester tagboard type box & the other in an AC Delco zip string metal carton) choke pull-offs with the "RP" cast into the front half that were quite White. The reason most used ones, low or high mileage, are Yellow is simply due to the aging of the plastic, just like any other underhood White plastics.

Have you ever seen the Rochester pull-offs with the front half in Silver/gray plastic? I'm thinking these were not true NOS but likely NORS.

[johnta1]

Here's an interesting add - buddy of mine just looked at a 20k original mile, unrestored survivor 70 Formula last night that had the blacked out treatment on the front valence, but it was also done on the rockers behind the molding.

You mean after the molding is taken off?
Or down below the molding?

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by Transamric

I too have had true NOS (one in a Rochester tagboard type box & the other in an AC Delco zip string metal carton) choke pull-offs with the "RP" cast into the front half that were quite White. The reason most used ones, low or high mileage, are Yellow is simply due to the aging of the plastic, just like any other underhood White plastics.

Have you ever seen the Rochester pull-offs with the front half in Silver/gray plastic? I'm thinking these were not true NOS but likely NORS.

Ric' I have the correct NOS Rochester box with the original pull off, trust me..it is yellow/tan. Your logic would apply to the original grey ones as well, I have seen many original old grey ones and they have not yellowed.. You guys are welcome to beloeve what you want..the original pull off was yellow.The number assigned by Rochester was opnly used for 1970, unlike other ones where the number crosses to many models.. But as I said..you guys will believe what you want..thats fine..I know what is correct..

[Transamric]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

Ric' I have the correct NOS Rochester box with the original pull off, trust me..it is yellow/tan. Your logic would apply to the original grey ones as well, I have seen many original old grey ones and they have not yellowed.. You guys are welcome to beloeve what you want..the original pull off was yellow.The number assigned by Rochester was opnly used for 1970, unlike other ones where the number crosses to many models.. But as I said..you guys will believe what you want..thats fine..I know what is correct..

So how do you explain mine Bill, if "you know what's correct"?

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by Transamric

So how do you explain mine Bill, if "you know what's correct"?

Ric.... you know..my only answer is you are wrong. You stated that the silver ones were most likely repo's, I showed a old style boxed one,with the complete assembly that was silver..sort of proves they were not repos.. Same with the yellow one. I am never always right as none of us are..I accepted this a long time back... SO in this instance, respectfully I say you are incorrect..You know..1968(or one of these years +/-1 yr) RA pulloffs were recalled for leakage and the factory replaced all with a black one and put a yellow paint dab to mark that it had been replaced.. I am sure many owners of these cars believe theirs is original as well. Correctly replaced, but not original.. Ric, unless you bought the car brand new from the dealer...I just don't believe it.. 1970 Non RamAir cars had the metal canister with double vacuum ports and RA cars have the 1970 only yellow cannister. I have seen pictures of more than one like this, but only touched the one on the 18K mile RAIV in ALberta Canada that I flew up to photograph.. As I said,, you guys will believe what you want to..that is fine..I am just trying to give some insight to what I have discovered.. Take it or leave it..Helll, put a pink pull off on you car and call it correct for all I care..

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by Transamric

I too have had true NOS (one in a Rochester tagboard type box & the other in an AC Delco zip string metal carton) choke pull-offs with the "RP" cast into the front half that were quite White. The reason most used ones, low or high mileage, are Yellow is simply due to the aging of the plastic, just like any other underhood White plastics.

Have you ever seen the Rochester pull-offs with the front half in Silver/gray plastic? I'm thinking these were not true NOS but likely NORS.

Also, the grey ones are real, I have them in the original old Rochester boxes. The ACDelco zip boxes were not the original Rochester supplied units. Truth be told, never seen one in a zip box, seen vacuum advances in the string box.. I am too lazy today to take pictures, but look in your MPC and you will see that 1970 has a pull off number that is not replicated elsewhere.. It was unique to 70, hence they being so damn hard to find. There are different types of plastic, anything that is going on top of the intake manifold, with all the associated heat, was designed to withstand the heat. They are not yellow due to aging.. C'mon Ric...you know these cars better than that.. You have always been one who didn;t make wild assertions...but this is getting out there. The original choke pull offs were yellow'ish/tan colored. I will post a picture of a new one in the next couple days. You can then decide if it is "yellowed" from age..

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by Transamric

I too have had true NOS (one in a Rochester tagboard type box & the other in an AC Delco zip string metal carton) choke pull-offs with the "RP" cast into the front half that were quite White. The reason most used ones, low or high mileage, are Yellow is simply due to the aging of the plastic, just like any other underhood White plastics.

Have you ever seen the Rochester pull-offs with the front half in Silver/gray plastic? I'm thinking these were not true NOS but likely NORS.

Here are pictures. One is of the complete assembly, housing a silver choke pulloff,this number is correct for all non ram air 1969 4BC vehicles. The other is the 1970 only yellow pulloff.I could not find the box, it is here somewhere, but I have over 1000 NOS parts in my shop and am not going to spend anymore time looking for it. As you can see, the silver one's are real,unless you believe the metal part is repo also, as well as the shaft being painted green-as they were back in the day..

[giles]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

Notice the spoiler, that is a style the majority of us here have never seen yet all of our cars started life with this style. I have only seen this one(car produced 1971 after the strike) ...GM had to produce a 3 bolt mount kit for the new spoilers(ones that we all have) look at the indentations on the 3 center bolts. Original 1970 TA's Spoilers did not need the spacer on these three mount points..

FWIW there is a post in the archives on this board with pictures of my 71 TA front spoiler. The car is an 04A Norwood car and has the style spolier that does NOT require the spacers. It is molded in blue plastic and came with my car in '76 so I believe it to be the original one. (I'll see if I can dig up the link to the earlier post...)

My original paint 70 formula had the blacked out area on the front valance (also pictures in an earlier post). Now that I think about it, it makes good sense that all valences would have had the black treatment. The plants could not have been bothered to skip the black-out on the 6% of Firebirds that were built into Trans Ams.

Crap! Now I have to add black to MY valance!

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by giles

FWIW there is a post in the archives on this board with pictures of my 71 TA front spoiler. The car is an 04A Norwood car and has the style spolier that does NOT require the spacers. It is molded in blue plastic and came with my car in '76 so I believe it to be the original one. (I'll see if I can dig up the link to the earlier post...)

My original paint 70 formula had the blacked out area on the front valance (also pictures in an earlier post). Now that I think about it, it makes good sense that all valences would have had the black treatment. The plants could not have been bothered to skip the black-out on the 6% of Firebirds that were built into Trans Ams.

Crap! Now I have to add black to MY valance!

First, that is a rare front spoiler.I bet 95% of them were broken and replaced with the later style.

As far as the "black out" treatment...Look at all the original pictures, you can clearly see white overspray. Telling us that the black was there first. Hard to get overspray if the black was put on 2nd??