[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

The BS is your insistence that it is the only track in the world that matters.

Carry on

Tom Vaught

It is the only track, didn't you hear LeMans is being bulldozed for a new mall ?

It's best to ignore Chump; he's a magazine reader, not an engine builder.

[Tom Vaught]

Yep, I know he is Brad.

I was paying the COPO Engineering Boys a compliment for building a very nice package (for the people who can afford the cars).

Tom Vaught

ps They have changed the Le Mans track many times over the years (No Worries): http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/circuits.html

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

It's best to ignore Chump; he's a magazine reader, not an engine builder.

Boy, you sure are impressed with the fact that you've rebuilt a few old engines...

FWIW - I've built just as many National Championship winning race engines as you have.

At least Tom actually has had a hand in DESIGNING engines for one of the manufacturers that are germain to the topic here.

[Tim Corcoran]

When your comparing cars you need to consider is it a limited production $90,000 car or a standard car that the average person would drive. Anyone can build a great car for $100,000.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by The Champ

At least Tom actually has had a hand in DESIGNING engines for one of the manufacturers that are germain to the topic here.

Tim, there will always be people who can afford the engines that I help design but cannot personally afford. I am just happy that I can work on the designs, maybe drive a few of the "Mules", etc, before the production (very small volume) cars actually get out there.

Course, If I hit a big Lottery prize I would probably think more seriously about actually owning one of the "toys" the rich people own, like a COPO boosted Camaro.

Tom Vaught

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Yep, I know he is Brad.

I was paying the COPO Engineering Boys a compliment for building a very nice package (for the people who can afford the cars).

Tom Vaught

ps They have changed the Le Mans track many times over the years (No Worries): http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/circuits.html

Problem with the Camaro is it's really Judge Dread ugly . Pity GM cannot recapture the beauty of 70 1/2 Camaro -

It doesn't cost anything extra to make a car look nice (well stampings) why are all these new cars so dreadful looking ?

[The Champ]

Styling is subjective, and what one person likes another may not.

All I know is that since the "retro" Mustang and Challenger were introduced, the Challenger has never sold enough to be significant and Mustang sales are down almost 100,000 units per year compared to the 2001 Mustang (when it had to compete with both the Firebird and the Camaro for sales).

Mustang sales in 2001 (4th gen no power Mustangs) were 169,168 compared to 2011 (5th gen "retro" improved power Mustangs).

Challenger sales have never topped 40,000 since it's introduction in 2009.

Meanwhile, the best selling Pony Car on the planet is the Camaro with ever increasing sales numbers - 2011 sales of 88,249.

Most people buy cars for one of three reasons:

1. The cars are cheap.

2. They like the looks.

3. They like the performance.

The Camaro is not the cheapest of the current Pony Cars, so it must be the other two reasons...

[sleepy]

In 2001 people were replacing their daily driver every couple to few years. 2011 they are hanging on to those cars YEARS longer. If GM charged what they had too to pay back the money they stole in a reasonable amount of time NOBODY would buy a crapmarro.(like the volt) and even if the currant sales numbers stay the same between the crudmarro and the ratstang GM will need about 100 years to catch up with the retro stang.

[The Champ]

The Camaro has been outselling the Mustang nearly every month since it's introduction. You and the haters can bash it all you want, but that just means that you are in the minority (as usual).

As to the Volt (you brought it up), it was the best selling electric plug in vehicle in the United States again last month. Unlike Ford's Focus Electric that has sold a total of 16 cars since it's introduction in December.

The Detroit giant confirmed for the first time this week that it has sold just 16 Focus Electric models in the US since production began in December...

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/for...#ixzz1xfUtoRYY

Chevy sold 326 Volts in December of 2010. If the current pace (32 cars per year) continues - it would take Ford 10 years to equal the Volts first month of production...

May and YTD 2012 sales of Electric Plugin vehicles:

Chevrolet Volt 1,680 up 14.9% YTD 7,057 up 223.1%

Prius PHV 1,086 down -34.3% YTD 3,638 n/a

Nissan LEAF 510 up 37.8% YTD 2,613 up 20.6%

BMW Active E 11 down -63.3% YTD 594 n/a

Mitsubishi i 85 up 7.6% YTD 300 n/a

Ford Focus Electric 6 n/a YTD 8 n/a

[sleepy]

GM is the only company who doesn't have to pay off what they stole. Chrysler is making their payments. Ford is paying their(private NOT government)loans. But GM doesn't have to add to the cost of the car paying back the billions the were given and stole.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by sleepy

GM is the only company who doesn't have to pay off what they stole. Chrysler is making their payments. Ford is paying their(private NOT government)loans. But GM doesn't have to add to the cost of the car paying back the billions the were given and stole.

I thought this was a discussion about the ZL1 and the GT500?

[1966goat]

So anyway, my brother in law brought home a new ZL1 last night. He brought it over, the car is mean and angry looking and sounding. I'll take pics when I see it next. On the streets its a lot of fun to play with the G meter.

[The Champ]

I see that as usual, sleepy is once again trying to change the subject that he started when the truth bites him in the assets.

I won't continue to embarrass him by pointing out his continuing errors and mistatements...

'66goat - Congratulations to your brother for having the intelligence to purchase the best of the best available to the consumer in the current Pony Car wars...

[sleepy]

errors and mistatements.
GM paid back with interest ALL of the money.
230 mpg
Volt outsells the prius.
GM is NOT run by the government(even though ofrauda fired the CEO and replaced him with his own guy)
GM DIDN'T steal investers money by having the government blackmale them at gunpoint.

[The Champ]

sleepy

Instead of blathering more of your bs, why not post on topic?

[sleepy]

On topic, The ZL1 should never have gone into production because GM should not be here.

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

It is the only track, didn't you hear LeMans is being bulldozed for a new mall ?

It's best to ignore Chump; he's a dirt track hotdog vender, not an engine builder.

Fixed it for you.

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by sleepy

On topic, The ZL1 should never have gone into production because GM should not be here.

Then based on what you are saying Chrysler shouldnt be here either ????? Thats alot of automotive jobs(including vendors) that would be at the soup line right now. I agree the "new GM" should pay ALL of the cash back.

[The Boss]

Personally, I like a world where there are multiple big car companies. Even though I drive & love my Ford truck, I wouldn't be happy if they were the only game in town.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by sleepy

On topic, The ZL1 should never have gone into production because GM should not be here.

Henry Ford's first two automobile companies went bankrupt. Using your logic, there should be no Ford Mustang, because Henry Ford should not have been allowed to start a third automobile company.

Chrysler also went through the process twice.

GM - only one time.

As usual, your own logic bites you in the asset...

BTW, sleepy, the folks in the suite at Cedar Lake Speedway are still waiting for you to bring them their hot dogs. The only job you're qualified to hold at a race track...