[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Back to the hunt again...

Anyone have any of these old GOATFINDER editions ?
Or info regarding ?

Is John Allen of Illinois a member here ?
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/pontiacgtos/page5.html

Our 8/96 issue featured .... and a '68 RA II RoundPort Firebird ad reprint!

Our 12/96 issue featured ...and JOHN TORREANO's INCREDIBLE 7,747-mile '68 RA II "Round-Port" GTO Convertible - the ONLY documented one in the country!!!

Our 4/97 issue featured ....and the extraordinary legacy of the KNAFEL PONTIAC "Tin Indian" Racing Team - campaigning 42 cars across No. America from 1959-1971!!!

Our 1/98 issue featured the (12) KNAFEL PONTIAC '69 Ram Air V TUNNEL©PORT GTOS! The (50) KNAFEL '70 Tempest Sedans (w/GTO 400ci engines & other tricks

Our 3/98 issue featured ...Plus the '68 & '70 KNAFEL Firebirds both sporting the ONLY "Porcupine Hemi©Head" TUNNEL©PORT engine ever made, and both also being World Champs!

Our 5/98 issue featured John Torreano's 7,700©mile '68 RA II/auto RoundPort GTO Ragtop & the KNAFEL Pontiac '69 Ram Air V GTO!

Our 8/98 issue featured ... '70 WT51 White JUDGE!

Our 9/98 issue featured ... RARE KNAFEL Pontiac '65 GTO Test cars & '54 Strato Streak Experimental Factory ptototype;


Any info's on any of this stuff would be Great Info's.

[68RamII]

At this time there has been 23 Ram Air II GTO vin numbers documented through PHS. Out of the 23 documented vehicles, 4 are convertibles. There is no way to tell if anyone has just documented an engine or a complete car.

[68RamII]

Car #4... does anyone know who now owns this red convertible?

[RA1John]

Since we know that RAII engine blocks and cylinder heads were cast in limited batches during the '68 model year, does it make sense that the intake manifold may have a cast date as far out as a month or more?

I spoke with a friend who worked at the PMD engine plant back in the 60s and he stated that all engines were built according to vehicle build orders. Engines weren't built up ahead of time and set aside until they were ordered (other than for replacement).

He did say that the SD engines were routed to a separate line for final assembly (usually a weekend OT opportunity for some).

Is it possible that a "D" cast engine would have an intake manifold cast in May or June according to vehicle build order?

Also, during production, if there was an engine problem at the vehicle plant, is it logical to assume that PMD engine would provide the vehicle plant with another broadcast code correct engine according to that specific application? Not like the assembly plant installed "SR" engines. Likewise, would it have been possible during the '68 MY that a customer could order an engine with a broadcast code and not get an "SR" engine?

Thoughts?

[Mcronk]

Good questions. Here is my thoughts based on the limited knowledge I have. First question about intake manifolds and block date codes. Of course the intake was the same used on most 4bbl applications in 68 and 69. So they were casting quite a few all the time. The early RAII blocks had the full 9792506 cast number on the block. Later block were "wiped and stamped" with the 2506. So my thinking is since the RAII was late in the production run, and no one knew how many orders they would get, after the early batch of blocks were used up they pulled the 9790071 blocks (2 bolt main but drilled for 4), machined them and installed 4 bolt caps, then wiped the 0071 and stamped 2506. I think it is quite possible that the intake would be closer to the build date of the car since they were using the intake inventory rapidly. As for your questions about replacement blocks not in the typical service replacement process I don't know. Could a person go to a dealer and order a block over the counter? If so would this block have a EUN (quality control/inventory purposes) a block code (per customer order) but no VIN stamp (since it was not installed on the assembly line and not a warranty replacement)? FYI my 67 400 HO has the original engine (EUN matches build card) the date codes for the block, heads, and intake are all the same month. The 67 was built in November of 66.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

Could a person go to a dealer and order a block over the counter?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Mcronk

If so would this block have a EUN (quality control/inventory purposes) a block code (per customer order) but no VIN stamp (since it was not installed on the assembly line and not a warranty replacement)?

No - no EUN (which was stamped on a completed engine), no VIN (since it didn't go in a completed vehicle), and no code (since a couple different engine part numbers could conceivably be built up from the same bare block).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by RA1John

I spoke with a friend who worked at the PMD engine plant back in the 60s and he stated that all engines were built according to vehicle build orders. Engines weren't built up ahead of time and set aside until they were ordered (other than for replacement).

Just to make sure I understand: when you say "all" - does that mean ALL (like including garden variety powerplants) or "all SPECIAL" (meaning just unique, low volume, interesting engine codes)?

Incidentally - that's how the bodies were built. All bodies were built to order; they didn't build a bunch of generic bodies to pull from. So it's easy for me to imagine engines were built up the same way.

Originally Posted by RA1John

Also, during production, if there was an engine problem at the vehicle plant, is it logical to assume that PMD engine would provide the vehicle plant with another broadcast code correct engine according to that specific application?

Yes (assuming they had enough parts to build another). This is true all the way up to a complete vehicle: if a whole car got lost or smashed they would build a replacement unit to that same specification.

Originally Posted by RA1John

Likewise, would it have been possible during the '68 MY that a customer could order an engine with a broadcast code and not get an "SR" engine?

I don't understand the question; do you mean could a customer order a complete engine over the parts counter by using the specific broadcast code (aka part number) he wanted, and not get an SR engine? No - it would still be a service engine, because it wouldn't have a VIN stamped on it (since it wasn't installed in a vehicle at the assembly plant).

K

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Back to the hunt again...

Anyone have any of these old GOATFINDER editions ?
Or info regarding ?

Is John Allen of Illinois a member here ?
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/pontiacgtos/page5.html

Our 8/96 issue featured .... and a '68 RA II RoundPort Firebird ad reprint!

Our 12/96 issue featured ...and JOHN TORREANO's INCREDIBLE 7,747-mile '68 RA II "Round-Port" GTO Convertible - the ONLY documented one in the country!!!

Our 4/97 issue featured ....and the extraordinary legacy of the KNAFEL PONTIAC "Tin Indian" Racing Team - campaigning 42 cars across No. America from 1959-1971!!!

Our 1/98 issue featured the (12) KNAFEL PONTIAC '69 Ram Air V TUNNEL©PORT GTOS! The (50) KNAFEL '70 Tempest Sedans (w/GTO 400ci engines & other tricks

Our 3/98 issue featured ...Plus the '68 & '70 KNAFEL Firebirds both sporting the ONLY "Porcupine Hemi©Head" TUNNEL©PORT engine ever made, and both also being World Champs!

Our 5/98 issue featured John Torreano's 7,700©mile '68 RA II/auto RoundPort GTO Ragtop & the KNAFEL Pontiac '69 Ram Air V GTO!

Our 8/98 issue featured ... '70 WT51 White JUDGE!

Our 9/98 issue featured ... RARE KNAFEL Pontiac '65 GTO Test cars & '54 Strato Streak Experimental Factory ptototype;


Any info's on any of this stuff would be Great Info's.

I've got SOME old Goatfinders, Todd. I'll see what I can do.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thanks for taking a look if you can guys.

Proposing that the mentioned John T. 68 Auto Vert is our Car #3 ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 68RamII

At this time there has been 23 Ram Air II GTO vin numbers documented through PHS. Out of the 23 documented vehicles, 4 are convertibles. There is no way to tell if anyone has just documented an engine or a complete car.

Thanks for that update John !
Would have hoped for more candidates than that tho ... dern.

Looks like we have all 4 of the known Verts.
And 16 of the 23 total , with 3 being PHS/BCH engines.

Another factoid -

"as per HPP April 1992 issue- WY 9790573-366hp,4bbl, man.trans RA II- 229 engines-199 cars built.
XW-9790574-366hp,4bbl auto trans.RAII- 53 engines-47 cars built."

36 leftovers.
Wonder if they would get disassembled and used as service parts ?
Or just sorta disappear through a back door ?