[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by taff2

Mark,I've got a '59 block mounted starter you're welcome to,I think the shipping might cost you a bit though! What make are those ali rods? The reason I ask is that I used Brooks B2 (BBC) ali rods and had to lightly notch my '59 block at the strengthening rib and base of the bores for clearance. Paul cryo'd the rods for me by the way,before shipping them over.
Paul,I do the same mod to the thrust bearing as you do but only Scotchbrite the backs of the bearing shells,I also fitted longer dowels for the main caps,nice clean work you do.

Thanks! I'm not sure what brand these rods are as Mark got them so I will let him answer that. Have you used your rods yet? How they doing?

What stroke was your engine that you had to notch the strengthening rib on? I was hoping that with this short stroke, I wouldn't have a problem. It looks like it has lots of room but I didn't mock it up first like I probably should have. I have never had a clearance problem in later blocks so didn't think about it until I got the crank in. This is only the second 59-60 block I have built. The other one was a 4.25 stroke with steel rods so of course it had no issues. I usually just mock up the crank and clearance the block for that, which I had to do with this crank. It hit near the oil pan rail, at the front corner of the block.

[marks73ta]

Taff and Paul. I should think the rods will clear with the 3.75 crank. Might be close but should be good. The rods are GRP. When you say a '59 block mounted starter, can you clearify how it is mounted etc? I was originally going to locate the inside bolt on a late block mounted starter to my '59 block flange and then add a piece of angle iron on the motor plate where the outside bolt would tie into. But I think adaptiing a bell housing mount starter may be easier??? If I get that starter from you, can you send just the bendix end without the heavy windings and housing? Then I can add that here at home?
If it works for me. I really appreciate the offer. If I can use it let meknow wha shipping would be from you to 85306, Glendale AZ. It will be worth the shipping if it makes adapting a starter easier.

[marks73ta]

Paul, if the car ever makes it down by you or you make it up here. You WILL drive it.

[gtofreek]

OK, I don't want to piss you off now! That would be the coolest thing ever! Even cooler than building this engine!

[taff2]

OOPS sorry Paul,I missed it being a 3.75" stroke crank, mine is a 4.00" crank. I've only put a hand full of runs on the new combo but I did (almost) hit the 150mph mark at the last test n tune,when it's all dialled in ,hopefully next season, I'm aiming for 7.90's@ 170mph.
Mark,the starter is a bellhousing mounted starter which came stock with my '59 engine,pm me your address and I'll ship the bendix and nose over to you,should cost less than $20,pay me later. I adapted a normal block mounted CSR mini starter by bolting a short piece of angle steel to my midplate/block adapter plate and bolting the starter to that. I also drilled a couple of 5/16" holes through the starters ali mounting block and midplate which clamps the starter tightly,and added a small diameter support strut, seems to work allright so far. Here's a couple of pics

[marks73ta]

Taff, I sent you a PM and I'll take you up on that great offer. I have to get my motor back out of the car so I can play with the starter placement. I went back a few posts to pook at my adpator/engine plate and I'll have to do some fabricating but I think it can work. One thing nice about my turbo motor is the lower compression does not put as much strain on the starter mounting. Mark L

[vin63]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Paul I think Marty P was over 1600HP back in 93 with a 67 400 block.

Vin63 you got to be close???


Hmmm...Marty had a billet crank. Marks is forged... VIN63 has run NITRO on a cast 400 N crank!!! SEE what she can make at 6000 RPM Mark!

We were probably at around 1800 hp to run 6.9/199 mpg at 2800+ lbs. as an altered. (chassis 2680 + me 165).

We ran up to 15 percent nitro on the cast crank. We switched to a forged crank now that we have to run a bigger tune to make up for the added 300+ pounds of a FC body.

[BruceWilkie]

Mark,...Last night I thought I was going to just swap the nose from the early starter to a heavy duty Delco.... guess what??? The pinion teeth are longer on the newer style Delco bendix. ...NBD right, just swap pinions(bendix)??? NOT so fast... the GD shaft is longer and lock ring on end is in different position because the of shaft and pinion length!!! GRRRRR...

Unless... you can remove the shaft from the armature(dont think so) and swap shaft or cut new lock groove and shorten shaft(not mandatory it would just stick out the end @1/4") its not as simple as converting a non hd modern delco to HD. The GD early nose sits with @ 1/4" gap when dropped in place of modern nose if you dont change the pinion stop lock ring groove position.

GOOD news though,...the early pinion mesh/diameter and tooth count is same as modern Delco... which I already knew when I tested the starter on my adapter with a common Pontiac flexplate.

Again... IMI http://www.hitorque.com/default.asp has a high power mini that fits 61-63 and uses offset bolt pattern vs straight across but otherwise will work for what you want to do. Butler and PY and iirc Ames carries this starter... Probably others.

...OR RobbMC mini for Toronado http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...o_starter.html or Eldorado http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...rter.html(same part # as Toronado)

... infinite clocking, same 3.25" register hole, and straight across bolt pattern.

This Buick "nailhead" starter looks like same offset bolt pattern as 61-64 bell mount Pontiac starter flange... http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...d_starter.html . Offset bolts looks to make R+R simpler imo.
Doesnt say if 3.25"(3.245) register but a phone call would verify that.

I've been busy... I did try this alternative on for size... the common mopar starter drive(pinion) DOES NOT mesh with GM flywheel. I'm borrowing an early hemi starter tomorrow that looks promising fit wise but I see no advantage at all to using one of them over the early Pontiac starters. In other words the "normal" Mopar starter is NOT going to work without crazy custom work and the Early hemi one is longer/heavier but might work if you just happen to have one laying around.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by vin63

We were probably at around 1800 hp to run 6.9/199 mpg at 2800+ lbs. as an altered. (chassis 2680 + me 165).

We ran up to 15 percent nitro on the cast crank. We switched to a forged crank now that we have to run a bigger tune to make up for the added 300+ pounds of a FC body.

400 stock block...cast N crank 1800 HP

WOW No room for error in build or tune to do that. Incredible...

I'm going to guess, you pushed cast crank near 7800-8000RPM???

[vin63]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

I'm going to guess, you pushed cast crank near 7800-8000RPM???

My 1-2 shift was 8100 RPM and the 2-3 shift was 8400 RPM, trying to go through the lights at 8600 RPM on those 7.0 and 6.9 runs last year.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by vin63

My 1-2 shift was 8100 RPM and the 2-3 shift was 8400 RPM, trying to go through the lights at 8600 RPM on those 7.0 and 6.9 runs last year.

OMG!!! Thanks for the inspiration... StockBlocksTTFMF.

With turbos I shouldnt have to turn anywhere near that RPM with the right heads and intercooler. My 59 block certainly has more beef than any 400 I've seen... And turbo's do tend to be easier on parts... I doubt I'll have a car that could use that power... but I'd still like to build the motor...never know when someone comes along with the right car for it. Meanwhile it can be run with the wick turned down and still be fun knowing the reserve is there.

Mark, you paying attention???

[twooldgoats]

It makes me feel better about choosing forged over billet, that's for sure.

Jim

[marks73ta]

SNAP!!!! (the sound of my arm breaking as I pat myself on the back, LOL). These are all reasons that I went with the early blocks all along. I started 12 years ago with two 370 blocks with intentions of building a shorter stroke engine. But once I got them I realized how stout they were compared to my '73 455 block and '73 400 block. I wanted to build them but finding main bearings stopped me every time. I know now that several people have used stock GM bearings for the 370 very successfully but I just did not trust them for my engines. I even had a full set of main bearings form EGGE but they got them from a buy of old off the shelf parts somewhere and had no idea of their manufacture or what material they were made from etc etc. I just could not afford to trust that they would do the job and not destroyed an engine. It would have been devistating to lose a motor for me finacially. Possibly never recover. But those blocks showed me just how well they were built and how much they should handle. Then I met Steve Barcak and he finalized my feelings. Making over 3000 hp with a '60 block. Although highly modified and reinforced, it was still the basic Pontiac structure and if I'm lucky enough to make one third of that I shouol dbe goldedn. I didn't know if a billet crank or a forging would be stronger but I knew a forging would be better than a cast crank. I understand again that people are making big power with cast cranks but again I could not afford a mistake. Nice thing is, I can under use it all or push it all to it's limits and be comfortable that it will handle a lot.

Bruce---loud and clear good buddy. Mark L

[marks73ta]

I found an ex Nascar truck series radiator to use in the trunk. The core is a double pass 24 inch X 20 x 3.5 aluminum with a side oil cooler in the tank. I still want the radiator to go in the trunk so I knew I needed a big radiator. This should fit the bill. I still have to engineer it into the trunk so it gets good flow etc.







I'll have to make a shroud to adapt my 2006 GMC radiator dual fans to it. It has one AN top tank fitting and a hose bottom fitting. The oil cooler has large AN fittings for it. Mark L

[marks73ta]

Just out putsin' around on the Catalina, and I realized I still had a little bit of movement of the steering column on the engine side of the firewall. Looking around for a support to use or make, I looked again at the steering column drop I made from a Howards aluminum connecting rod, and Badda Bing, Badda Boom. It's done. This is my steering column drop.



I cut off the rod shank where it touched the inside wall, drilled holes in the wall and the corrosponding locations in the rod shank, tapped for 1/4 inch bolts and wire brush polished the cap ends.





Just using some old useless parts, until now. Thank you Keith for the rods.


Mark L

[marks73ta]

I pulled the mock up motor and started to build the shifter mount off of the trans. I still have both a Mr. Gasket and Hurst V-Gate shifter so I had to make it fit both. I used a piece of angle to mount off of the top left tail housing bolt, cut a length of 2X3 tubing at an angle (like a shim) and welded the front to the angle iron piece. Then I built a mount support off of the rear transmission mount flange to support and hold the rear of the 2X3 tubing piece. I can mount either shifter unit to this mount but I still have to check for floor clearence at the top of the mount, once I get everything back into place. I have room in the brackets to lower it if need be.
This is the backside of the mount.



The end mount support off of the trans mount flange.



The mount with the Hurst unit mocked up in place.



And an end shot of the mount and Hurst unit in place.



I will locate the actual position relative to the seat in the car and the height I need for the shifter/shifters once I get everything back in the car and cut the floor open. Then permanently drill the mount for the shifter I select to use. The Hurst fits with zero mods and seems to be the more hand friendly unit as far as comfort using the trigger for 1st gear engagement. The Mr. Gasket is just as easy to use except the reach for the trigger while my hand is on top of the shift handle is too far and uncomfortable. The shift rods fall right into place on the Hurst as well. I will have to thread one of the rods about 3 inches to use the Mr. Gasket or make new rods completely to use it.

Mark L

[blueghoast]

I use a top loader too.
I think your going to have to lower your shifter as it will sit to high.
I might be wrong cause mines in a A-Body car. Nice choice of trans
though, There tuff as all get out. Cool Build too. Keep up the proggress.

GT.

[Engine-Ear]

Mark, what mfr & model transmission is that? I am guessing a B-W T85?

A friend of mine has a rod with a 3-speed and although I am not sure how it was done, the shifter linkage was altered so that the pattern was like a 4-speed where upper left is 1st, lower left is 2nd, upper right is 3rd and lower right is Reverse. Does this mod interest you? (I can email him to see whether he can send me pics of his setup.)

Thanks for the latest pics and progress.

[marks73ta]

Hey Matt. As blueghoast mentioned , it is a Ford (Dearborn) toploader 3 speed. GM bought them from Ford because their gm 3 speeds were failing behind the big torque engines in the heavy cars. Buick, Olds and Pontiac used them. I wanted a strong low cost manual trans and the wide gear ratio three speed actually fits the bill better with the turbos than the narrower 4 speed ratios. Ratios are 2.42/1.61/1 to 1. It will work the turbos better. Matt, not sure how he got the first gear to second gear on the same side of the center gate? But I feel OK with the regular pattern using the V-gate shifters. That way I cannot miss sliding into second by falling into reverse. The V-Gate will prevent that from happening. If I can afford it I may build a TH400 for just going to the strip. The automatic and converter is much better suited to strip duty. Mark L

[marks73ta]

Blueghost. With my custom gasser type front clip I've actually dropped my engine/trans combo down a little so I have more room than a stock Catalina and in this shot you can see the clearence.



you can see I have some room. That is part of why it is so tall, to get the shifter back up high enough with using the old bench seat. I can still cut out the floor, but if it is a problem I can still cut down the mount. It's nice to have options. Mark L