[60man]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, in studies aimed at increasing the power from aircraft piston engines, came to the following conclusion: “The data indicated that water was a very effective internal coolant, permitting large increases in engine power as limited by either knock or by cylinder temperatures.”

Engine power production, referred to as brake mean effective pressure (BMEP), is measured by taking the average effective pressure of the cylinders as they progress through intake, compression, ignition, and exhaust strokes. Added power comes as a result of greater pressure, but a higher temperature inside the cylinder accompanies greater pressure. These higher temperatures can lead to detonation, referred to as engine knock, or pre-ignition, both of which are cases where the fuel-air mixture burns in an undesirable manner and can be destructive to an engine. To combat knock and pre-ignition as power increases, a richer air-to-fuel ratio is normally required. If the addition of extra fuel doesn’t provide enough knock protection, then a higher-octane fuel, which is more resistant to knock and pre-ignition, may be used. However, once the knock limit of a higher-octane fuel is reached, can anything be done? This is where a water injection system presents an appealing option.

The issue may be that cooling the charge may not be enough vs the higher octane fuel.

Tom Vaught

In short ......guess I should go with E85.
I have some gas stations within 10-15 miles of my home.

[T Syron]

Originally Posted by 60man

In short ......guess I should go with E85.
I have some gas stations within 10-15 miles of my home.

Troy,
I have been told that you can't trust the percentage of ethanol from the pumps. It's supposed to be all over the place. Maybe check into it before you make your decision.

Good luck,
Tom Syron

[T Syron]

From VP race fuel website.


NEW! C85™
If you’re committed to using E85 type fuels, C85 is by far your best choice. Conventional E85 fuels are notoriously inconsistent, requiring up to a two-jet swing in tuning from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. In addition to taking all the guesswork out of tuning, C85 makes up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85. With higher quality pure components, C85 is superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and even includes corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol. C85 works well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting. Note that for racers unwilling to invest in the new carb and expensive fuel system upgrade required for E85, VP’s MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money.


Tom Syron

[60man]

Originally Posted by T Syron

Troy,
I have been told that you can't trust the percentage of ethanol from the pumps. It's supposed to be all over the place. Maybe check into it before you make your decision.

Good luck,
Tom Syron

Yep..I know. Most of the E85 Guru's have that covered to.. You can get a test kit and just change your tune to compensate for variences... More jet,add some race fuel, or both...
As far as that goes....can you trust Race Fuel octane ???

The fuel suppliers raise price of E85 right up to Race fuel prices ..

Sorry but $11.00 a gallon sux..

[Goat-Racer]

I installed a Snow dual nozzle kit on my 421 just before Drag Week back in '06. The new heads (my current ones) had just gone on the motor and the compression ratio was now 11.4:1. The plan was to run the mid West's finest 93 octane pump gas and the WM injection. We started the first day and ended up a few tenths behind the class leader. In an act of despiration, I turned off the WM and went a tenth faster. It just turned out that the combo was safe enough to not need the extra protection, and I may have been spraying too much mixture to boot, but there is only so much real estate inside of the intake manifold. That and the fact that water doesn't burn. Mine just didn't need it or benefit from it.
Your higher CR may like it over what I had.

End of Drag Week story: front shock and rear tire pressure tuning gained us another few tenths and eventually gave us the small block NA class win!

[60man]

Thanks for your input Brian. I'm just testing the waters(no pun) at the moment.
There are a LOT of racers who run & like the E85. Just seeing if I have other options..
I have a lot of space in my Gutsram intake ..

[455firebird1969]

Originally Posted by 60man

There are a LOT of racers who run & like the E85.

Troy, you hit the nail on the head. Something I don't understand is, anytime E85 is discussed on this forum, negative comments seem to come from folks not running it. This comment is not directed at any particular individual, it is intended as a general statement on this topic, not a deliberate jab. If there is someone burning pump E85 (ethanol), who has negative results based on experience, I would like to hear it. I really don't care whether or not, you or anyone else, switches to ethanol, it's a personal choice.

I have run pump E85 (ethanol) for three years. My 850DP looks like new inside, after three years, of ethanal use. I have filled my drum 8 times in the last three years. The first drum was 85%, the second drum was 74%, so I re-jetted for 74%. The third drum I got was 94%, so I added regular unleaded to get down to 74%. I ran 74% all that year, and the second year, because my engine liked that tune. I went back to 85% for the third year. I now know what jets to use for 74% or 85%. When filling my drum I have received 85% or higher every time except that one time I got 74%. If you fill a drum and get a different mix and have to re-jet, that drum will last several months, so it's not like you are re-jetting every weekend. I have spent approximately $1700 for race fuel in the last three years. Had I used race gas I would have spent about $2700. The 850DP cost $600 new, and the SS filter I installed was about $60. Additionally, my engine makes more power and runs cooler when I burn ethanol, compared to 110 octane race gas.

My only regret is my car is no longer using a Q-jet.