[Sirrotica]

Any of you guys look at Keith Vrabecs pictures of when Roy Tyner first built his GP and all the changes along the way the car went through? These cars change colors all the time and after the car is wrecked, they're not going to pay a sign painter and a painter every time they have to change sheet metal. Back then the numbers were put on in a pinch with masking tape when they were in a hurry to get to the next race. Cars got painted with whatever paint they had lying around, sometimes it was brushed on house paint.

Sheet metal on oval track cars would probably be changed at a minimum of twice a year, lots of patching and straightening in between too. If you made a full year you were damn lucky, or the car sat more than it was raced. If you made it through the full year without changing sheet metal you were going to change it over the winter for sure. Original parts on this type of a car mean nothing. This is a full contact sport, it's not like drag racing where sheet metal never gets changed.

Probably the reason the chrome louvers were removed from the 2+2 fenders is because they require no chrome trim on the cars because during contact these pieces fall onto the track and puncture tires. My guess rather than loosen all the nuts it was quicker to burn that section out with a torch and patch it. Or it was a take off with slight damage from a body shop, or a junkyard someone had already cut the chrome off of it. Body shops and wrecking yards are the main source for sheet metal for these cars because if there was slight damage it couldn't be used and many times they were given away for free. Free is just the right price for a privateer.

When I was running and building oval track cars a wrecking yard sponsor was almost a necessity to get sheet metal plus keeping an eye out for dead cars that looked like their next stop was going to be the crusher. Buying a car for a few bucks to get the good body parts and scrap the rest meant the body parts were free. I can't even count how many fenders, quarters, bumpers, door skins, etc. I've changed on oval track cars. The amount of oxygen and acetylene used and the piles of coat hangers I've used to weld bodies back together would be a good amount.

Chances are the roof is the only original sheet metal part on that car and the
VIN is probably long gone too. It would be unusual if there is a title for the car either. The only way to know if it's the car, is to believe whoever has been entrusted with the car all these years, most likely a family member. This wasn't a Petty car or an Allison car, it was some guy that filled the field that had a dream of being a big time race car driver and make some money along the way. There's no payoff to lie about the history of the car because it will never be really valuable.

[real61ss]

This is great that Worth is getting some press!!! These pictures came from the Racers Reunion web site. Ray Lamm is on that site. Before you guys speculate too much about what the car may or may not have been let me provide a little information. I worked for Worth during that time frame (1962 to 1967). I was with him when he picked the car up at Brauer Pontiac and was with him at most of the races that the car ran. As you can see in one of the photos, he had a second car, the # 80 '64 Pontiac. I worked on the cars and sometimes drove the second car for him. The '65 started life as a Catalina, (it was not a 2+2 as reported) equipped with a 421 HO Tri-Power motor, 3 speed manual trans and radio & heater delete and dog dish hub caps. I remember well the evening that we picked the car up, it was brand new, we drove the car from the dealership in Powhatan, Va. to Amelia, Va where Worth's shop was. We stopped at the local truck stop for something to eat and to show the car off before taking it to the shop to start the conversion to a GN race car. The car got about 50 highway miles put on it. The 421 was removed and replaced with a '62 SD motor. The car was originally white with red lettering. Towards the end of the run for the car it was getting pretty beat up so the body panels were straightened and the car was painted a pale yellow and the numbers were black. By then there was no sponsor so there was nothing else written on it. Actually I think someone gave him the yellow paint was the reason for the change of colors. I believe it was a gallon of paint that got mixed by mistake. Grand National cars were only allowed to run 3 years so we made an attempt to convert the car over to a '66 so that it could be run another year,the car was taken to the race in Richmond in the spring of '68 but the NASCAR officials would not let him run it. They said didn't look enough like a '66. I believe the last race for the car was the fall race at Martinsville in 1968. The car then was parked and parts off of it were used to build a '67 GTO. The GTO was never finished, Worth then bought a '69 Gran Prix but this was never finished either. One thing that I can't explain, (it's been a long time ago) is the right front fender, i recall that Worth got a bunch of '66 stuff from Lacy's Auto Parts in Richmond to make the change, that is a 2+2 fender (you can see where there trim was) however it doesn't look like it ever had any paint on it but we painted the car before we went to Richmond. The car has been setting in the woods for 45 years, I guess maybe the paint just faded away.
I hope this answered any questions or doubts about the car.....it is the real deal

[Deadhead]

Wow. So the car ran a '62 SD 389 but had 421 on the hood?

What was the thinking behind the swap? More importantly is that motor still sitting in the corner of the shop?

Was that dealership one of the ones that is still there on 6 (now Ford)? I will take some Pics next time I am through there.

We are very lucky to have this kind of knowledge, history and experience here.

Thanks for posting all that.

[real61ss]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Wow. So the car ran a '62 SD 389 but had 421 on the hood?

What was the thinking behind the swap? More importantly is that motor still sitting in the corner of the shop?

Was that dealership one of the ones that is still there on 6 (now Ford)? I will take some Pics next time I am through there.

We are very lucky to have this kind of knowledge, history and experience here.

Thanks for posting all that.

Most of the time the car was ran with a '62 421 SD motor, Worth also had a 389 SD motor and the car was ran at least one time with a street motor. The original 421 motor was not useable as a race engine. By 1965 Pontiac was out to lunch so far as NASCAR racing was concerned. Worth, Roy Tyner and H.B. Baley were the only ones still trying to run them. That photo of the # 36 car that was posted is H.B. Bailey. He later dropped down to the Grand Am division and ran a Firebird.

I'm not sure what is in the old Brauer Pontiac building now, I haven't been to Powhatan in years.

Worth also drove the Roy Tyner G P once at the race in Richmond, I think it was 1969. After Worth quit racing I worked for Roy for a while. Roy wrecked the GP in practice for the Richmond race and was taken to the hospital where he remained over night. We took the car to Haley Pontiac on southside Richmond and worked on the car all night, called Worth on Sunday morning and got him to drive it the race. I beleive that may have been the last race that Worth drove.

The reason for this is the annual celebration at the old Hillsbourgh N.C. race track is coming up later this month, Worth finished 5th driving this car in the last race ever ran at Hillsbourgh which was the fall of 1968. They apparantly intend display the old car at the celebration.