[Deadhead]

Wow. So the car ran a '62 SD 389 but had 421 on the hood?

What was the thinking behind the swap? More importantly is that motor still sitting in the corner of the shop?

Was that dealership one of the ones that is still there on 6 (now Ford)? I will take some Pics next time I am through there.

We are very lucky to have this kind of knowledge, history and experience here.

Thanks for posting all that.

[real61ss]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Wow. So the car ran a '62 SD 389 but had 421 on the hood?

What was the thinking behind the swap? More importantly is that motor still sitting in the corner of the shop?

Was that dealership one of the ones that is still there on 6 (now Ford)? I will take some Pics next time I am through there.

We are very lucky to have this kind of knowledge, history and experience here.

Thanks for posting all that.

Most of the time the car was ran with a '62 421 SD motor, Worth also had a 389 SD motor and the car was ran at least one time with a street motor. The original 421 motor was not useable as a race engine. By 1965 Pontiac was out to lunch so far as NASCAR racing was concerned. Worth, Roy Tyner and H.B. Baley were the only ones still trying to run them. That photo of the # 36 car that was posted is H.B. Bailey. He later dropped down to the Grand Am division and ran a Firebird.

I'm not sure what is in the old Brauer Pontiac building now, I haven't been to Powhatan in years.

Worth also drove the Roy Tyner G P once at the race in Richmond, I think it was 1969. After Worth quit racing I worked for Roy for a while. Roy wrecked the GP in practice for the Richmond race and was taken to the hospital where he remained over night. We took the car to Haley Pontiac on southside Richmond and worked on the car all night, called Worth on Sunday morning and got him to drive it the race. I beleive that may have been the last race that Worth drove.

The reason for this is the annual celebration at the old Hillsbourgh N.C. race track is coming up later this month, Worth finished 5th driving this car in the last race ever ran at Hillsbourgh which was the fall of 1968. They apparantly intend display the old car at the celebration.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Johnny Ditch from NY state in the Jamestown area raced a 65 Catalina a few times in NASCAR. The car was white, with black and white stripes roughly about 4 inches wide over the hood, roof, and deck lid running the length of the car. The number was U2, anyone that would have seen the car would remember the different paint scheme.

They had I believe an SD NASCAR 421 engine from an earlier year, I know it was a 421 because I talked to him about the car, just not sure if it was a SD or not. I do know it was an expensive engine built by one of the better engine builders of that time.

Johnny Ditch ran Pontiacs up until about 66 and then kind of retired out of the sport, always painted the same way and number was always U2. Later on he drove a few cars for other owners locally at our dirt tracks..

Here is a YouTube interview with Johnny Ditch and there are some pictures of the 65 Catalina during the interview. He also mentions about taking the Pontiac to Daytona.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSFYMv946eU

[66 Wagon]

Found this at gettyimages.

[Sirrotica]

A bunch more pictures and history about the car in question.

http://stockcar.racersreunion.com/fo...1965-poniac-83

Nascar statistics.

http://www.racing-reference.info/driver/Worth_McMillion

Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worth_McMillion

[Keith Vrabec]

KLUNK.....

Just fell off my chair...

[Keith Vrabec]

Well, I'm not going to be able to sleep for a while....

[Keith Vrabec]

Bruce it wouldn't be a headache....no but your right butt cheek will take the hit instead...IF that's where you carry the wallet. Will take $80-$100k to do it right. But very do-able.

Like any big car or GP resto, it ain't about making money. It is about spending it though...

[Engine-Ear]

Thank you for the added information about this car!

In addition to satisfying my skeptical curiosity, the posts and links will help document this car when or if it is restored/saved.

[Ragtop Man]

Hold the phone, SS: whatever happened to the GTO and Grand Prix that didn't get finished? And where is that 421 tripower that came out of the car sitting now? A stone stock 421/376 is a gigabuck engine if it is original.

If it is still the same frame, there are one or two 'hidden' VIN numbers that the boardistas know how to find; a PHS would be fascinating to find. The number of heater/radio delete cars with tripower and a 3-speed (Dearborn!) has to be about one.

Also: what did they do for running gear/suspension... rear axle, etc. I can't believe the hybrid 10/12 bolt would last more than a few laps.

Great info, great scholarship!

[Sirrotica]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

Hold the phone, SS: whatever happened to the GTO and Grand Prix that didn't get finished? And where is that 421 tripower that came out of the car sitting now? A stone stock 421/376 is a gigabuck engine if it is original.

If it is still the same frame, there are one or two 'hidden' VIN numbers that the boardistas know how to find; a PHS would be fascinating to find. The number of heater/radio delete cars with tripower and a 3-speed (Dearborn!) has to be about one.

Also: what did they do for running gear/suspension... rear axle, etc. I can't believe the hybrid 10/12 bolt would last more than a few laps.

I ran a 8.2 3:55 posi rear end for 4 years in oval track in the GTO in my signature picture with no mods whatsoever. It would have been in there 5 years if I hadn't been hit broadside on the RR wheel and bent the housing. This isn't drag racing and the tires weren't that wide or sticky so a real beefy rear axle is not really needed.

Also at this time it was real stock car racing and the factory parts needed to be in the car to be allowed to compete per the rules.

The engine was probably sold to get money to build the car, or maybe as part of the sponsorship deal, the Pontiac dealer got the cast off parts back to sell.

Someone is already trying to answer the question as to what became of the unfinished cars, GTO and GP. Also the 64 Cat and the 62 Cat previous to the 65.

[65 Cat 2+2]

that is a 2+2 fender (you can see where there trim was

I am confused by that fender. It's a '66, so there would be no louvers on it. The '66 2+2 had 3 taller louvers just behind the doors on the rear quarters, not on the fenders. The welded patch panel in the picture is where '65 louvers would have been. Weird. Unless they grafted the front of a '66 fender to the rear of a '65, but it doesn't appear to be the case.
I could care less about present day NASCAR racing, considering how it has evolved. If it were still real stock car racing, as in the '50's & early/mid-'60's, I'd be a huge fan.
That was thrilling - real cars driven by real men.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by 65 Cat 2+2

I could care less about present day NASCAR racing, considering how it has evolved. If it were still real stock car racing, as in the '50's & early/mid-'60's, I'd be a huge fan. That was thrilling - real cars driven by real men.

A-MEN, brother.

[Keith Vrabec]

Tyner rand a drop center 57-64 rear in his 67 GTO and in the 69 GP initially. That usually was the GM rear of choice. Let me check my rule book this weekend and see what rear you could use and what you could substitute.

Block,, heads and intake require manufacturer part numbers. Trans had to be one that was available in the car. Muncies were not good for circle track due to close tolerances, tended to blow up. But I'm sure a few people made them work well. The Dearborn could be run without modification....Go figure.

BTW the 1970 rule book is about 3x5inches with about 32 pages dedicated to Grand National rules, which includes all the car specs...LOTS of room for interpretation!!!!

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by Keith Vrabec

Bruce it wouldn't be a headache....no but your right butt cheek will take the hit instead...IF that's where you carry the wallet. Will take $80-$100k to do it right. But very do-able.

Like any big car or GP resto, it ain't about making money. It is about spending it though...

That's no lie!

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by mike nixon

That's no lie!

Please no more reminders on this. Bad enough as it is.