[johnta1]

Has anyone looked at Horst's paint page?

Pontiac Engine Color

[Bentwheelbob]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Has anyone looked at Horst's paint page?

Pontiac Engine Color

The darker blue swipe on the oil pan was mixed based on the PontiacPower codes from the referenced website. the other two swipes were both Tieman's.

70RAIII and I are going to do a double blind, round robin test. He is going to send me a can of OEM with a few vapors left, and I am going to send him some of the Pontiac Power and Tieman mixes. Once he and I each have multiple objects, painted with multiple mixes, with pictures taken in variable lighting with different cameras, we are really going to have fun with this debate.

here is the shipping invoice on the Tieman paint.



and a few more oil pan shots...







Glad I am not going to get carried away with the whole originality thing...

[Brewster]

Sounds like were narrowing it down a little further and look forward in hearing/seeing the results.

Bruce, its a disease and in my opinion it is the little correct detailing that sets off a car from the rest.
Appreciate the help from everyone in trouble shooting this one!
Brew

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

The darker blue swipe on the oil pan was mixed based on the PontiacPower codes from the referenced website. the other two swipes were both Tieman's.

70RAIII and I are going to do a double blind, round robin test. He is going to send me a can of OEM with a few vapors left, and I am going to send him some of the Pontiac Power and Tieman mixes. Once he and I each have multiple objects, painted with multiple mixes, with pictures taken in variable lighting with different cameras, we are really going to have fun with this debate.

here is the shipping invoice on the Tieman paint.



and a few more oil pan shots...







Glad I am not going to get carried away with the whole originality thing...

[165th]

I wanna play. Here's a paint daub of Tiemann's '71~'73 blue paint over Ames '71~'73 blue and Ames late '73 blue.

Tiemann's Delstar acrylic enamel ate into the Ames paint causing it to crinkle.

[Bentwheelbob]

Yeah, I forgot I have a can or two of Ames engine paint floating around. I'll add that to the mix as well. I bought it before I let this whole situation spin out of control, and have just used it to paint a few small parts on the 455HO like the back of the damper. It definitely had a greener tone to it than the Tieman paint.

I think whoever talked about the folly of trying to use a 40 year old part that has been subjected to oxidation, rain, grease and 1000's of hours of high operating temperatures, is absolutely correct. Not that it make this any less fun, but a very valid point nonetheless. If I remember correctly, when I talked with Tieman he said he matched using the paint from the backside of a damper on an unmolested, low mileage engine.

Didn't our old pal Loffen have a page or two on his "tread" about engine paint colors?

[70RAlll]

Everyone will think I am a jerk saying this..but here it goes.. This color deal was settled a while back with the OEM colors. Tienmann seems to command a lot of respect(not by me, after conversations with him.. my daughter gets more from me) so that is why there is even a discussion today. Many think everything he does is gold.. If the board knew the truth, wouldn't think so. But he does do great body work and his paint jobs are bitch'in.. Anyway, sending bob a can of OEM today, will have it in a couple days.. We will see the difference, if there is any. I have not seen Scotts paint in person, I'm guessing it will not be correct, but I could be wrong..wouldn't be the first and will definately not be the last..

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by 165th

I wanna play. Here's a paint daub of Tiemann's '71~'73 blue paint over Ames '71~'73 blue and Ames late '73 blue.

Tiemann's Delstar acrylic enamel ate into the Ames paint causing it to crinkle.

ames looks to have better green hue than the other color. Assuming the non ames is the paint that is on 1/2 of the plate..

[165th]

Originally Posted by 165th

I wanna play. Here's a paint daub of Tiemann's '71~'73 blue paint over Ames '71~'73 blue and Ames late '73 blue.

Tiemann's Delstar acrylic enamel ate into the Ames paint causing it to crinkle.

Here's a clarification on this test panel:

The left half of the plate is Ames '73+ blue
The right half of the plate is Ames '71~'73 blue

The paint daub in the bottom middle of the plate is Tiemann's Delstar paint.

The paint daub in the middle (Tiemann's) is definately greener than the Ames which is bluer. I'm not sure if it reads that in these photos.

Scott clarified with me that he took the sample from the harmonic balancer after removing the lower pulley of a low mileage GT-37 15 years ago. The paint was solid, fresh and unsoiled. I couldn't think of a better sample to use for a color match. I wonder what OEM used to match their color? Anyone know?

[rexs73gto]

I do hope all you guys are taking in to account that there were 2 colors of blue in 73 & The color for the 72 is also a different color. Also if you can really think that a color would not change in 40+ years even if it's not been subjected to any heat or oil or any other things that would happen to an engine, well thats just wrong. All paint will change over time just from time alone, so even if Scott took the color from the back of a dampner it would still be a different color after 40+ years. Because of the emmissions rules for the 73 engines the blue was 2 different colors in 73. The color for the engines were changed after January 73 to show the EPA that these engines had been changed to meet the new std's for the 73 std's. So no matter what color blue you have it could be correct depending on when the engine was built & certified. Scott does build great cars but he is only guessing to , as any color he's using to copy wouldn't be excact after 40+ years. I use VHT SP122 for my engines that I have built for 73 cars. Thats what I've always used for my car which is a 73 GTO that I've had since new. I use to use the dupi-color but they changed the color blend to make it look more like the late model 75-77 blue which is closer to the old olds blue which is correct for the 75-77 cars. But to each his own , but if you use Scotts it's only close to . No one color is perfect , it's just what everyone will accept as correct, & no ones has it PERFECT.

[165th]

I recently owned a 3000 mile '79 TATA and that paint looked exactly the same under the rear deck as it did in the nooks of the fenders and door jams and behind the carpet as it did on the top of the hood and trunk deck. Based on some of the logic in this thread I just have to ask myself 'I wonder what color it was originally?'

Earlier this spring there was a 14K mile unrestored '74 Firebird Formula Gulfmist blue for sale that I had the privilege of looking over prior to it's sale, and I can again say that paint was unchecked, not faded, and as best as I could tell had not changed color.

IMHO, and with all due respect, to begrudge a guy who goes to the trouble to try to replicate a color as close to original as any logical person could think of a way to do it, by saying he is just 'guessing', is at best illogical. Instead, I'd think anyone that chooses to use OEM, or any other color in which the person doesn't know the history or reasoning behind the color mix is.....'guessing'.

Bentwheelbob and RAIII, what are you going to use as the datum in the double blind to match the color shades from the various manufacturers to?