[Formulajones]

Guess Bruce is another non believer

That's okay, run into many guys like this over the years. It's a common response from people that don't fully understand what's going on here, or from people that just haven't tried it themselves. If you can't beat em', you may as well join the fun Gotta respect guys that aren't afraid to do what these cars were born to do, and get out here and ring these expensive cars (not to mention expensive parts and pieces)

Since we are on the subject, here is Mahoney's ram air II bird that's one of the quicker pontiacs I'm aware of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJjya...yer_detailpage

[Judge273]

The PSMCDR is a event that is only in Michigan as I understand. The intent is not to distort or use tricks, but to have a platform of unity and drag race for "no awards".

[Formulajones]

Correct, however there is another entity running called the F.A.S.T. series that has branched off from this several years ago, and they run a class called "Factory Stock" which is basically the same thing as the Pure Stock racing running assentially the same rules and tech.
However F.A.S.T. has several races throughout the year at different venues, so it's easier to plan and attend, and it's always fun to see the so called "ringer" cars as some of you guys are calling it, those would be the F.A.S.T. cars or "Factory Appearing Stock Tire" cars that Bruce is referring to.

For more info on this group check here... http://www.fastraces.org Their event schedule is likely to have something nearby most of you anywhere in the midwest.

Matter of fact you'll see another one of Mahoney's ram air birds on the front page, this one obviously setup to run the F.A.S.T. series.

[transam1972]

I did not factor in how rare the RA IV is..a lot more 455 H.O.s,mine being one of them...as I stare at the engine,tell me what I should do..58k on the car,bought from the original female owner in 85...engine swap so good,I never knew it has a complete SR motor,heads and carb. from 73...that alone may drop the motor miles to 48k..car has always been garage kept...before I go racing do you advise pulling a head and valley cover to really inspect this engine?...I hope to hook up with my brother who does this...I just painted my engine OER blue,thats my engine work...it seems the 455 H.O. was just an all around highpoint of the roundports...but no one can argue that to own a Ram Air IV or a 455 S.D. is not a good thing...to see these engines still being raced is very cool

[Formulajones]

Are you saying you want to hit the pure stock or factory stock drags at some point? Probably alot of prep that could be done but I would personally recommend keeping it simple and getting your feet wet so to speak. Get a feel for it and meet some people, most are all friendly and willing to share help and tips. I guarantee once you have a taste of it you'll be hooked and looking for more.

Myself I just enjoy the sounds and smells of these old cars racing, and it's all heads up racing like it used to be, none of that silly index and handicap stuff. You don't have to be the fastest guy, after qualifying they'll pair you with a similar running car and go heads up 2 out of 3. So some of the matches can appear strange at first, but real eye openers when the light turns green. Lots of fun and sure beats sitting around in a lawn chair dusting the car off, that's something I got tired of doing a long time ago. Speaking of which any one of these cars would win and/or stand proud at any local show, some really nice stuff comes out for racing.

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Guess Bruce is another non believer

That's okay, run into many guys like this over the years. It's a common response from people that don't fully understand what's going on here, or from people that just haven't tried it themselves. If you can't beat em', you may as well join the fun Gotta respect guys that aren't afraid to do what these cars were born to do, and get out here and ring these expensive cars (not to mention expensive parts and pieces)

Since we are on the subject, here is Mahoney's ram air II bird that's one of the quicker pontiacs I'm aware of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJjya...yer_detailpage

I get a kick out of that youtube link. Ricks RAll dyno'd at 525 hp , pretty stout for a stock built 400. I built and tuned his quadrajet that is running that car,sight unseen with no changes needed when dyno'd,which is how I know these numbers. Really humors me to see that link on PY's, wasn't long ago someone told me to "shut up and learn about carbs from those that know" on a PY thread discussing an EES 70 Q Jet.. now one of my carbs running one of the fastest Pontiacs out there is linked on a PY thread.. funny...yes, funny..

[transam1972]

RA II...3 yrs. til the H.O.?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by transam1972

RA II...3 yrs. til the H.O.?

Yeah, first of the round ports. Very scarce that first year so the cars weren't well known for years except in tight drag racing circles.

It's the lightest of the Fbodies, with good heads, compression, long branch manifolds, and camshaft, they are runners for sure.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

I get a kick out of that youtube link. Ricks RAll dyno'd at 525 hp , pretty stout for a stock built 400. I built and tuned his quadrajet that is running that car,sight unseen with no changes needed when dyno'd,which is how I know these numbers. Really humors me to see that link on PY's, wasn't long ago someone told me to "shut up and learn about carbs from those that know" on a PY thread discussing an EES 70 Q Jet.. now one of my carbs running one of the fastest Pontiacs out there is linked on a PY thread.. funny...yes, funny..

Interesting stuff, it seems no matter what the subject is around here there is no shortage of haters. Glad I could help, the car runs good

I'm not that great at searching links but I'd bet I could find more of that car if you wish?? Hehe

[Jack Ferris]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

I get a kick out of that youtube link. Ricks RAll dyno'd at 525 hp , pretty stout for a stock built 400. I built and tuned his quadrajet that is running that car,sight unseen with no changes needed when dyno'd,which is how I know these numbers. Really humors me to see that link on PY's, wasn't long ago someone told me to "shut up and learn about carbs from those that know" on a PY thread discussing an EES 70 Q Jet.. now one of my carbs running one of the fastest Pontiacs out there is linked on a PY thread.. funny...yes, funny..

I just gots to know how a "stock" RAll 400 is making 525 hp.
Im not hatin, Im not out to prove anybody wrong or rattle stones, I just would like to know how that happens. Using basic headflow calculations this motor would have to be somewhere around 120% VE to product that power. Not saying it is impossible, I just want to know how its done with the "stock" parts being used. I know RAll heads are indeed unique in the way they have almost equal airflow in the intake and exhaust ports. Is this why?

To run 11.50 at 3400# takes roughly 440 hp. To run 122 mph takes around 480 hp

So, this particular car making 525 hp in excellent air should run in the mid 10.80's at close to 126 mph.

Pretty impressive I'd say.

[Formulajones]

Well, not to knock down HP numbers but they all have to be taken with a grain of salt.

The type of dyno wasn't mentioned, the brand, the method of testing, the correction factor etc....

All these things have an affect on the numbers.

Some things I can tell you, that number if indeed correct, was likely done in an engine dyno cell before installed in the car. Again not knowing the brand (DTS is one I'm familiar with and they are stingy) and not knowing the setup, some dyno's won't allow testing with stock exhaust manifolds. They lack the room, so sometimes specifically made dyno headers are used, which actually make more power than chassis headers do. That's just one scenario.

Another could be that the engine was run with no accessories, no mechanical water pump, no mechanical fuel pump etc...which is common to ease hook up and speed up the dyno process. In which case you could see a 20-40 HP bump.

Without knowing any of these things it's too difficult to judge.

Dyno's are tuning tools more than anything, the number is just a guideline. On any different dyno or operator the numbers could be different, as much as 25HP.

To make that kind of power the heads would only need to flow about 260 cfm with alot of other factors that play a roll.

With the rules that allows a 1.5 bump in advertised compression and this car being purposely built to run the class, you can bet you're looking at a 12.25:1 engine, and probably a max bore of .070 would also help to increase the head flow by unshrouding the valves. From there it's attention to detail. Things like zero decking the block, CC the heads and make sure all chambers are identical, making sure all rocker arms are the advertised ratio, checking cam lobes, degreeing the camshaft, the small 1/16" ring package helps, and just lots of other little things that a good engine builder will do, even on a stock type rebuild using stock parts to extract the most out of what you have.

Keep in mind none of these cars actually had the compression ratio advertised from the factory, and that goes for any OEM engine back then. Most fell .25 to .50 a point below advertised, since the pistons were generally .020 to .025 down in the hole, and cylinder heads CC all over the place, you have core shift issues with cast parts, intake manifolds that don't match up very well (pontiac is notorious for that), deck heights that vary from front to back from core shift which also affects compression ratios from one end of the engine to the other. Etc....
All these things are corrected (or should be) even during your most basic rebuilds, so in essence when finished it should run better than it ever did from the factory because you are correcting mass produced issues that weren't a concern back then. A well done stock rebuild will boost the HP without any real tricks.

[transam1972]

how much did the original round port Ram Air II heads evolve to RA IV, then 455 H.O.?...minor or big changes..thanks!!