[charlie66]

It will always be a Pontiac..... Just call it an after market Pontiac if its got the good stuff on it?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by Bnick166

I feel if it retains the front timing cover (Or a modified version w/ a more modern water pump) and a reasonable facsimile of the lifter valley cover.....it's a Pontiac.

Originally Posted by charlie66

It will always be a Pontiac..... Just call it an after market Pontiac if its got the good stuff on it?

... I tend to think that Bore-Space is the key to it still being a Pontiac, imo, as there have been a multitude of cylinder heads designed by Pontiac (SOHC, Hemi, RA-V, etc.) over the years, different deck height blocks, bore & stroke obviously has changed, reverse cooling, EFI, valve angles too, but as far as I know the bore-space has remained ...

... I don't know of any significant changes to the lifter/cam area, but maybe I'm wrong ...

[JD311]

if you can move the bore space a slight bit within the same block dimensions with same main spacing and an old d port head bolts on its a pontiac. I went to a machine shop and they had a windowed top fuel block with old 440 heads on it on display lol. It was still a mopar to me!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by JD311

if you can move the bore space a slight bit within the same block dimensions with same main spacing and an old d port head bolts on its a pontiac. I went to a machine shop and they had a windowed top fuel block with old 440 heads on it on display lol. It was still a mopar to me!

For me you can move the bore space what ever you want within the same block dimensions with same main spacing.

Stan

[rexs73gto]

If it doesn't use the HT-951 lifters & real Pontiac heads will bolt on the block it is a Pontiac. It is no longer a Pontiac if it has a chevy , olds or buick engine in it. When GM started using all the other engines from the other divisions then Pontiacs no longer were Pontiacs. But this is not smart question as the answer is in its self. A Pontiac is no longer a Pontiac when it no longer has a Pontiac engine in it. Plain & simple. If Pontiac developed it & used it then it's a Pontiac engine. If not then it belongs to another division then it's not a Pontiac engine which makes it something other then a real Pontiac. Plain & simple.

[Blued and Painted]

But look at the total package. If it's got a mustang style front end and a 9 inch, mine as well be an SCJ. So who is crossing over the line?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

But look at the total package. If it's got a mustang style front end and a 9 inch, mine as well be an SCJ. So who is crossing over the line?

Many years ago some Chevy racers were complaining about the 2-speed (powerglide) transmission installed in a Ford racer's Super Street Mustang. They said that is not right and it is not a Ford part.

The Racer said, "Ok I will remove my PG trans and put a 2 speed C-6 transmission in my car. All of you guys remove your Ford 9" Rear Axles from your Chevelles, Novas, and Camaros, put the 10 bolts back in and lets race. END OF DISCUSSION BY THE GM CAMP.

Racing in my mind is about finding the most durable components for the application that will allow maximum performance. Durability being based on more than one pass down the track. There is a lot of cross-pollination: basically the influence or inspiration between or among diverse elements: Examples being Ford Tunnel Port and Pontiac RA-V. 392 Chrysler Hemi and M/T Hemi.....................

Instead of "What If" (Pontiac had built a Race hemi), How about "What Do" in order to go faster and be competitive in today's racing world.
Visner's Head is a Pontiac Head (no different than if M/T did it).

Tom V.

ps The 10 Head Bolt Deal would immediately eliminate your fastest vehicle from the record book (The Rodney/Travis Tempest).

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

If it doesn't use the HT-951 lifters & real Pontiac heads will bolt on the block it is a Pontiac. It is no longer a Pontiac if it has a chevy , olds or buick engine in it. When GM started using all the other engines from the other divisions then Pontiacs no longer were Pontiacs. But this is not smart question as the answer is in its self. A Pontiac is no longer a Pontiac when it no longer has a Pontiac engine in it. Plain & simple. If Pontiac developed it & used it then it's a Pontiac engine. If not then it belongs to another division then it's not a Pontiac engine which makes it something other then a real Pontiac. Plain & simple.

so, by your logic any six cylinder Firebird built after 1969 or a 403 powered T/A is not a Pontiac?

When I design my brake stuff one of the criteria is to see if an existing design will work suitably. Factors like inventory and engineering cost play a big part. GM of course does the same but at a dozen magnitudes greater, and viewing this from a manufacturer's viewpoint the constant whinging about powerplants is getting infantile.

Stratostreak engine finished up in 1981
Pontiac was axed in 2009

We should be grateful that guys like Kaufmann, Butler, Edelbrock and other step up and make stuff for a 2nd tier brand like ours, obsolete as it is.

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... I tend to think that Bore-Space is the key to it still being a Pontiac, imo, as there have been a multitude of cylinder heads designed by Pontiac (SOHC, Hemi, RA-V, etc.) over the years, different deck height blocks, bore & stroke obviously has changed, reverse cooling, EFI, valve angles too, but as far as I know the bore-space has remained ...

... I don't know of any significant changes to the lifter/cam area, but maybe I'm wrong ...

Its just like evolution and time effect us as people.

We all get better with age because of are experiences . So does this mean we are not that person anymore , or are we just evolved . So I think if were still buying Pontiac parts for it, its still a Pontiac . So what if they look different. That's the price you pay for making something better.. I still call my mother my mother . And she looks a lot different now then when I was 10... Ok ill stop now. This getting a little out of hand.. Lol! I hope you get what im trying to say........ Im sure I'm
going to get ranked on for this one. Lol...

[twinturrbo406]

... so what's the opinion on lifter-bore design/placement and cam tunnel design changes ?? ... as in moved lifter bores, size options, cam journal design changes ?? ...

... Pontiac or not Pontiac ?? ...

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... so what's the opinion on lifter-bore design/placement and cam tunnel design changes ?? ... as in moved lifter bores, size options, cam journal design changes ?? ...

... Pontiac or not Pontiac ?? ...

Bill,
If it is OK to move cam lobes around to change the firing order then anything inside of the block to do with the cam for me is fair game.

Stan

[lemans411]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... so what's the opinion on lifter-bore design/placement and cam tunnel design changes ?? ... as in moved lifter bores, size options, cam journal design changes ?? ...

... Pontiac or not Pontiac ?? ...

a modified pontiac is still a pontiac in my opinion, if pontiac heads bolt on its a pontiac,

[Lee]

I remember seeing "PMD" on some older Pontiacs, which stood for Pontiac MOTOR Division.

Of course, it could no longer be a "motor" division of GM after 1981, so it effectively became the Pontiac Design Division of GM.

Regardless of era, the Pontiac version of whatever GM allowed them to produce was always more attractive than the Chevy version.

That said, I prefer for PMD-era Pontiacs to STILL be powered by Pontiac (exceptions being for F-bodies that came with 403 Olds from the factory, I give them a waiver).

[Blued and Painted]

My first knee jerk answer would be, anything beyond a round port E-head should have a Modified in front of PMD. On second thought, the RA-V opens up the door to all the cylinder head SciFi Madness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCM6TZgTMI