[geeteeohguy]

X3 or 4 on the Honda or Toyota. Honda's are a bit more complex and tend to have more issues after 200,000 miles. The 4 cyl Toyotas typically pass 300,000 without issue. Also, they have non-interference timing belts, unlike the Hondas. Found my brother a mint '98 Camry with 69k on the clock for 5 grand....he put 25k miles on it in the first year, had zero problems, and averaged 34 mpg. (4 cyl). Have worked on a ton of these cars, and all they every need is brake pads every 90k and oil changes. Had a Camry come into work years back for a front alignment, and I assumed the car had about 50k on the clock due to its mechanical condition.....backing it off the rack, noticed it had 365,000 miles on the clock. Can't beat a lowly 4 cyl Toyota for value.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Found my brother a mint '98 Camry with 69k on the clock for 5 grand....he put 25k miles on it in the first year, had zero problems, and averaged 34 mpg. (4 cyl)..

Strange - I've got a '99 4 cyl Camry that I'm lucky to get 22 mpg out of. that's lower than my V6 Acura that has about 140 more HP. All short trips with that car, though. 190,000 miles now - I've had it for about 5 years (it was passed to me through the family), and I've only changed oil and filters in it. That's it.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans

Strange - I've got a '99 4 cyl Camry that I'm lucky to get 22 mpg out of. that's lower than my V6 Acura that has about 140 more HP. All short trips with that car, though. 190,000 miles now - I've had it for about 5 years (it was passed to me through the family), and I've only changed oil and filters in it. That's it.

Funny thing about Camry's. (I Own a 2010 SE). I used to work for a public auto auction. The cars they sold were junk. If it could run through the auction under its own power, it was a sale-able car. These were cars that seriously were at the end of their life.

We used to get Camry's in all the time with 300,000 miles or more all the time and they still ran through the auction. They were the only cars that would come in "sale-able" with those miles.

[John V.]

After driving a Safari van for 11 years, my wife got tired of 16 mpg and problem after problem that kept me busy with one repair after another. Plus, kids were grown so she was more than ready to downsize.

So we bought a new '08 Civic EX 4 dr. sedan. She absolutely loved it. In 2012, we needed a car for my son, so he got the '08. She got a '12 Civic EX-L. There was limited selection at the time (tsunami) and she debated it vs. the Elantra. Nothing wrong with it really, she just never fell in love with it, especially the color which I talked her into. She still likes the '08 better.

My son has the '08 in Boston. My wife cringes to think how "her" car is taking a beating up north. It didn't help when somebody punctured the front bumper with a hitch or whatever while he was parked on the street. No note, no sorry about that. Just a hit and run.

I would encourage you to try and boost your budget.

I've never had a Toyota so I would cast a vote for the 8th gen Civic ('06 thru '11 I believe).

Keep in mind, if you bought an '08 Civic for $8000 this year (what I valued mine at on my financial statement last summer) from an original owner private seller, next year it would still be worth about $7200. If you buy from a Dealer, it'll cost you more. When buying used cars, I have always tried to cut out the middleman, and buy direct from the owner to save money.

A $4000 car is not an easy sell, so it is a tempting purchase. But it not an easy sell because it will be typically nearly 15 years old, most people don't need the aggravation. All sorts of things will start to break if they haven't already. How happy will your wife be when it stops making heat. Or it dies on the side of the road with a failed fuel pump? That is the norm for old cars and why they sell cheap.

Sure they can be fixed. But there is something to be said for reliability.

Before you buy used, take a look at new too. Consider the cost of tires, maybe a battery, and realize that you can use that money to help pay for new. And the warranty means no surprise expenses.

When I bought my first new car in '80, the fuel economy savings vs. my old car helped offset about 25% of the payments, helped make it affordable.

And always remember, your payments aren't pure cost. Much of it is your equity. Your real cost is depreciation. If you can swing the payments, there is a lot to like with new.

The '08 hasn't had any real hiccups but it is now over 5 years old. It is just a matter of time before it will need some expensive repairs, maybe brakes too. It has been nice to avoid repairs to this point. Had battery post corrosion issues, caused a no start from time to time. When I replaced the battery, installed felt washers and seemed to cure that problem.

You might find the proverbial creampuff in a $4000 used car. But most $4000 used cars will be nightmares as Old Blue points out. Those cars go on the Si Habla used car lots. Sold to people who can't get credit anywhere else for prices way higher than their value. And the poor get poorer.

I don't know about high cost of parts, only thing I've had to buy from Honda are wiper refills for both Civics and they are very reasonable.

BTW, not sure since when, but the Civic no longer uses a timing belt, even in '08 that was not a service issue.

The '08 gets 35 mpg at a steady 78 mph on the highway, always more than 30 mpg around suburbia. The '12 gets a tick better on the highway. It'll do better than 40 mpg but I can't drive that slow on the highway.

I drive a '04 GP GTP, 3.8 SC since new. It gets 24 mpg on the highway. 100K on the odo. I'm a Pontiac guy but I would not recommend my car to somebody looking for a reliable, economical used car.

Last thought, I HATE the headrests on the Civic. But the fuel economy makes me forget how much I detest them.

[justincampbell]

I understand that there are better buys out there for more money. But unless I have some money just fall from the sky, the $4000 is pretty much all I will have to spend for this.

I also understand that a 10-15 year old car will not be without some trouble from time to time. But if I can find something that will be as good as her current car(2000 Hyundai Elantra) has been up to this point, I will be pretty happy. The thing got great mileage(avg 31-32) and had not previously had any difficult or expensive repairs. All I have done to it in the 85k since we have owned it is: plugs and plug wires($30), a little part related to fuel system(I can't even remember what it was exactly now, $26), brake pads($13), RH drive axle assembly($48), RH wheel bearing($16). While not trouble free, I'd say that is still pretty low maintenance for the miles I got out of it. FYI, I suspect the drive axle and bearing may have come to their end earlier than they should have due to the accident it had been in when I got it(it had been hit in the right front corner hard enough to total it).

[John V.]

I feel your pain. And believe me, my wife and I have driven many "lousy" cars when we were younger, cause the one I owned was always cheaper than anything I could afford to buy. Like you, I could always fix 'em myself for cheap.

Just trying to caution you, if you spend $4000 on an apparent creampuff and the trans in it blows up 6 months from now, then what?

Do you qualify for financing on a new car?

That $4000 might get you thru about the 1st year of payments.

How long did you own the Hyundai and what did you pay for it? How many miles on it when you bought it? Is it worth anything now?

If you paid $4000 for it 5 years ago, just to be comparable, you'd need to look at an '05 and probably pay a lot more for it based on inflation. And then you'd have to be just as lucky as with the Hyundai because it seems like it did well by you until the trans crapped out. No guarantee your '05 bargain will be as problem free as the '00 has been.

My '08 Civic cost about $20K. Today it is worth about $8K.

So it has only cost me about $2K per year in depreciation. Set of tires, a battery, about 8-9 oil changes (once every 8000 miles per the on board oil minder), a few air filters, a couple cabin filters, a few wiper refills, washer fluid, and a lot of car wash soap and water. Also a couple tail lamp bulbs IIRC.

I'm sure that's more than you have in the Hyundai over what may be a similar time span.

But the Honda doesn't need replacement yet. So the difference is a lot smaller than what you might think.

Another choice is to look at certified preowned. You can find very low mile 2012 Civics for about $16K and finance thru Honda if you qualify. Plug in your zip code and see what is available near you. I don't typically recommend buying used thru a dealer but financing can be an advantage, plus a powertrain warranty.

http://automobiles.honda.com/certified-used/

You can do this with any make, only picking the Civic cause that is what I know.

The LX model is the stripped version, the EX adds moonroof, alloy wheels. IIRC, the EX also adds 4 wheel disc brakes, the LX might have rear drums. We got the '12 EX-L with leather, heated seats, and heated mirrors but would have been happy with the EX as we were in '08, in fact my wife really hates the leather seats.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by justincampbell

I understand that there are better buys out there for more money. ...
I also understand that a 10-15 year old car will not be without some trouble from time to time. ...

without quoting too much of what has been said, or getting into hte whole import vs domestic deal, please allow my contribution...

We just sold my wife's '00 Ford Focus last month, and when we sold it, there were ZERO issues with it;

I understand that with age problems arrise, and this is where maybe taking time to find a low owner, well maintained car comes in;

My wife was (to the best of our knowledge) the second owner of her car, the previous owner was an older lady who primarily used it to go to the store;

My wife was also brought up to know that you have to keep up on maintenance, so where ever she lived, she would find a good shop, and get it checked up during oil changes ect - this from what I've understood is quite uncommon these days;

For the past twenty years it seems as though the auto manufacturers have been (successfully I might add) grooming the public into streching out intervals between service, to the poitn that cars tend to have an expiry date on them...

Were I in your shoes I would be looking for a compact, with a four cylinber (for mileage), and probably be looking at a Focus, Sunfire, or Cavalier, as they can all be had for a smoking deal, and depending on your market, it is often a buyers market ~ so you can simply wait till the right car to pop up.

I would stay away from cars with more options, or v6's (the latter kicks the Taurus out of the running btw).

I have found that servicing the GM's is invariably easier, and parts are often cheaper.

I have never bought into the whole mantra of imports being better than domestics, it all comes down to the car segment you're buying into, and really how well maintained it is;
I have noticed that compact imports tend to be owned by two groups:
1) older people who maintain their car
2) younger people who modify, and bag the living crap out of them

As such I have noticed that unfortunately the vast number of people owning compact domestics fall into these two catagories:
1) middle aged people who don't maintain, or care about their car
2) younger people who modify, and bag the living crap out of them

If you have the patience, I am confident that you can find a good domestic compact to fill your needs, and be well under your price point.

... and that's my two cent's worth