[Badbird69]

Curt,

I realize you are the latest poster boy for Gaby and therefore want to defend him. I understand that. There are two things you should know: 1) Gaby was given our cam specs and at no time did he make any cam change recommendations. 2) Changing from a 1.6 rocker to a 1.85 rocker is already a significant "cam change". Is the cam perfect for the "improved" top end? No, but it is close. Close enough to have made some base line numbers to tune from. I am not asking for help diagnosing our power loss. We'll deal with that in house.

Losing power is merely a footnote in this two year fiasco. Having to sit on the sidelines for two years while our competition catches up to us infuriates me. Having to watch two years of re-certifications go to waste infuriates me. Being lied to month after month infuriates me. Getting shoddy workmanship from some unknown sub-contractor, instead of the artwork that Gaby is known for, infuriates me. Having to do things twice infuriates me. Having to do it over a third time infuriates me even more.

Again, is it all Gaby's fault? No, but to have allowed this project to get so far behind and so fouled up is ultimately his responsibility. As you can tell, I am more upset about losing the two years than anything else. We have a lot of ground to make up.

Dick Fulton

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Curt,

I realize you are the latest poster boy for Gaby and therefore want to defend him. I understand that. There are two things you should know: 1) Gaby was given our cam specs and at no time did he make any cam change recommendations. 2) Changing from a 1.6 rocker to a 1.85 rocker is already a significant "cam change". Is the cam perfect for the "improved" top end? No, but it is close. Close enough to have made some base line numbers to tune from. I am not asking for help diagnosing our power loss. We'll deal with that in house.

Losing power is merely a footnote in this two year fiasco. Having to sit on the sidelines for two years while our competition catches up to us infuriates me. Having to watch two years of re-certifications go to waste infuriates me. Being lied to month after month infuriates me. Getting shoddy workmanship from some unknown sub-contractor, instead of the artwork that Gaby is known for, infuriates me. Having to do things twice infuriates me. Having to do it over a third time infuriates me even more.

Again, is it all Gaby's fault? No, but to have allowed this project to get so far behind and so fouled up is ultimately his responsibility. As you can tell, I am more upset about losing the two years than anything else. We have a lot of ground to make up.

Dick Fulton

Agree with you about the TIME deal. You can't ever get that back.
That being said, lately you can read posts about Heads with screwed up seats, (according to the owner). Blocks that were improperly machined, Intake manifolds possibly made by a sub-contractor that needed additional work, Headers that don't fit, Valvetrain that doesn't look right, yada, yada, yada.

So is the PY board a bad place for posting this info, not really.
Info just tells the people buying that it is not a perfect world out there.

BE PREPARED for less than you expected. BE HAPPY when you see outstanding work like the "Magic Man's" stuff. Course MM is making the stuff for FRANK.

Even FRANK has issues with stuff not always being dead nuts on the money at times.

But don't let it drag you down Dick, because that is water over the dam now.
Climb back into the saddle and start a new day. You are still here, breathing.
Beats the chit out of the alternative. Lets go racing in 2014!

Tom Vaught

[EPC_Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Agree with you about the TIME deal. You can't ever get that back.
That being said, lately you can read posts about Heads with screwed up seats, (according to the owner). Blocks that were improperly machined, Intake manifolds possibly made by a sub-contractor that needed additional work, Headers that don't fit, Valvetrain that doesn't look right, yada, yada, yada.

So is the PY board a bad place for posting this info, not really.
Info just tells the people buying that it is not a perfect world out there.

BE PREPARED for less than you expected. BE HAPPY when you see outstanding work like the "Magic Man's" stuff. Course MM is making the stuff for FRANK.

Even FRANK has issues with stuff not always being dead nuts on the money at times.

But don't let it drag you down Dick, because that is water over the dam now.
Climb back into the saddle and start a new day. You are still here, breathing.
Beats the chit out of the alternative. Lets go racing in 2014!

Tom Vaught

Well said Tom, Lets get to racing in 2014 . This cold weather is getting old!

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Curt,

I realize you are the latest poster boy for Gaby and therefore want to defend him. I understand that. There are two things you should know: 1) Gaby was given our cam specs and at no time did he make any cam change recommendations. 2) Changing from a 1.6 rocker to a 1.85 rocker is already a significant "cam change". Is the cam perfect for the "improved" top end? No, but it is close. Close enough to have made some base line numbers to tune from. I am not asking for help diagnosing our power loss. We'll deal with that in house.

Losing power is merely a footnote in this two year fiasco. Having to sit on the sidelines for two years while our competition catches up to us infuriates me. Having to watch two years of re-certifications go to waste infuriates me. Being lied to month after month infuriates me. Getting shoddy workmanship from some unknown sub-contractor, instead of the artwork that Gaby is known for, infuriates me. Having to do things twice infuriates me. Having to do it over a third time infuriates me even more.

Again, is it all Gaby's fault? No, but to have allowed this project to get so far behind and so fouled up is ultimately his responsibility. As you can tell, I am more upset about losing the two years than anything else. We have a lot of ground to make up.

Dick Fulton

I can only relate given MY experience - remember perception is reality. And the statement that only you and Gabby know the complete story -- and you each have your own "reality", that being said I can only comment on what I have experienced and that is that Gabby has been nothing but fair and up front with me - AND produced the results promised. Have we had disagrements, sure, did he handle them as an absolute proffesional -- absolutley, I can't say the same about some other shops that come here and spout off about there products or programs. My point still is -- if you have the same product that many others have made very succesfull and you cannot duplicate the results, is it the product or the end user -- And where do you mention the complete new manifold that you were provided to address the quality issues of the first ??? It does sound like an honest effort was made to resolve the issues - I do understand about the time, but to be honest Id NEVER WAIT for two years to get stuff together-- not unless I excepted at least some of the blame for the issues at hand and felt the time issue was a shared event. Some times " relationships" just dont work and everyone needs to move on, If one side is a complete dick - thats the time to throw stones - if both sides just can not find middle ground to work on - time to move on.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by cgeise

My point still is -- if you have the same product that many others have made very succesfull and you cannot duplicate the results, is it the product or the end user -- And where do you mention the complete new manifold that you were provided to address the quality issues of the first ??? It does sound like an honest effort was made to resolve the issues - I do understand about the time, but to be honest Id NEVER WAIT for two years to get stuff together-- not unless I excepted at least some of the blame for the issues at hand and felt the time issue was a shared event. Some times " relationships" just dont work and everyone needs to move on, If one side is a complete dick - thats the time to throw stones - if both sides just can not find middle ground to work on - time to move on.

I keep seeing stones being thrown towards Dick as if he is incompetent. He made 920 HP (with 13.5 to 1 compression) with a set of Butler wide ports and a manifold by KRE. His car has run well into the 7's @ over 3000 lbs on a hot summer day at Norwalk, who else can say that?

As far as issues, **** can happen and it's how things get resolved is what makes the difference IMO. Nothing bothers me more than a dissatisfied customer (fortunately I have not had many). Having an adult conversation about what happened and the best course to correct it can make the difference as this is a small community and paths can likely cross again in the future. A fair amount of time has passed, 2 years ago when Dick was frustrated, he didn't come in here and blast Gaby and it wasn't until "shots were fired" that brought this out.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I keep seeing stones being thrown towards Dick as if he is incompetent. He made 920 HP (with 13.5 to 1 compression) with a set of Butler wide ports and a manifold by KRE. His car has run well into the 7's @ over 3000 lbs on a hot summer day at Norwalk, who else can say that?

As far as issues, **** can happen and it's how things get resolved is what makes the difference IMO. Nothing bothers me more than a dissatisfied customer (fortunately I have not had many). Having an adult conversation about what happened and the best course to correct it can make the difference as this is a small community and paths can likely cross again in the future. A fair amount of time has passed, 2 years ago when Dick was frustrated, he didn't come in here and blast Gaby and it wasn't until "shots were fired" that brought this out.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Theres quite a few stones been thrown Gaby's way too. I have no dog in the fight....but the guys who have been happy with the performance Gaby delivered them, Have a right to be skeptical and point out that they were satisfied customers.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Theres quite a few stones been thrown Gaby's way too. I have no dog in the fight....but the guys who have been happy with the performance Gaby delivered them, Have a right to be skeptical and point out that they were satisfied customers.

Mike,

Reread Dicks post. He's not bitching about the performance as much as the other things.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

Mike,

Reread Dicks post. He's not bitching about the performance as much as the other things.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

I get that.....doesn't change my post or opinion. Or Dicks, or gabys customers...

I really don't have an opinion other than a bad deal for all.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I keep seeing stones being thrown towards Dick as if he is incompetent. He made 920 HP (with 13.5 to 1 compression) with a set of Butler wide ports and a manifold by KRE. His car has run well into the 7's @ over 3000 lbs on a hot summer day at Norwalk, who else can say that?

As far as issues, **** can happen and it's how things get resolved is what makes the difference IMO. Nothing bothers me more than a dissatisfied customer (fortunately I have not had many). Having an adult conversation about what happened and the best course to correct it can make the difference as this is a small community and paths can likely cross again in the future. A fair amount of time has passed, 2 years ago when Dick was frustrated, he didn't come in here and blast Gaby and it wasn't until "shots were fired" that brought this out.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

I wish I had a 3000# car.

I suspect that you are doing Dick Fulton new CV1 motor?

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I wish I had a 3000# car.

I suspect that you are doing Dick Fulton new CV1 motor?

No I'm not.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420