[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

My perspective was and still is....create a product and have it proven on dyno and in car. Then improve on that product for higher HP applications.

And how many new developers will simply skip over us because they simply can not afford to meet your requirement?

NOT create 15 different product offerings and not one of them were proven.

Not exactly true... there are product offerings in use and they have shown improvement over standard castings. Bench dyno and track... they may not have set records but if you look at the sum of the entire combo they are certainly an improvement. Had other heads shown similar results? Sure, but how much development time, and again, the entire sum of the combo?

I was anxiously awaiting the small runner, small cubic inch results.....never materialized.
It always was put on the back burner to create another port to brag about and not test it on an engine.

Not exactly... They(ports) are available to meet applications that would make best use of them.

Thus minimizing wait time should someones application call for a port of that capability.

Bill/Calvin arent so much about bragging as letting people know what is available and what capabilities the heads have.

BTW there are 2 small ci builds in the works. Comp eliminator style, NA... and serious pump gas NA. Funds are slow, most the pieces are there for the pump gas combo. (Not me btw) Some for the other.

In hindsight it looks to me like they didnt pass on enough info of what capabilities one would require for good use of a given port capability. Sure, many dont need the extra info, and many let someone else more knowledgeable help decide, IMO it would have been helpful for some.

Contrary to what you and others have been led to believe... Bills ports are of excellent design parameters, efficiencies etc., if starting with porters castings.

Std castings get notable improvements on the basic "tune-up" porting. Real estate permitting, the big flow heads have very very good to excellent port qualities for their size.
The standard castings arent defective, they have alot of capability. Much depends on how they are applied.

How they are perceived is notable as well. An early BES built cv1 street motor makes just as much if not more power than a Kasse built P51 head Ford at similar CI, both with similar COMPROMISED performance parameters(long term street use on pump gas not max power or engine master budget).
Obviously no one criticized because BES was involved, yet no one noticed(or ignored if they did) the parameters.. most any good shop could duplicate the results...

Yet more notably ignored... Here was a Pontiac shoulder to shoulder with a popular competitors brand with a head of similar ability NOT almost as good but equal to slightly better.

The std cast 4 intake is compromised for hood clearance street strip use. A couple of race single 4's are being exaluated... testing is promising but far from complete.

You ARE correct combo's need to be built and tested to "prove" them. They too want to get them built and "proven"...

Yeah its a shame a test like Fultons didnt occur much sooner than it did.

Its a damn shame some builds got criticized by some without really assessing the sum of the build itself, or in some cases, just openly lied and made up things as they went..

BTW has the economy been boomin the past 5 years??? Has it been shaky the past 7? My economy hasnt faired so well..
Tigers initially werent showin much... BUT a few invested heavily and showed otherwise. The economy was doing pretty darn good when that happened.

Available funds do matter. This isnt Edelbrock corp. Folks involved work at other things and do this on their free time. No way should they be expected to match resources and time tables of a large corporation.

Right now Jim will not produce new head castings. Maybe never.
Meanwhile builds are in progress... Admittedly slower than than most of us would like to see.

Results may indeed change the situation... only time will tell.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

And how many new developers will simply skip over us because they simply can not afford to meet your requirement?


Not exactly true... there are product offerings in use and they have shown improvement over standard castings. Bench dyno and track... they may not have set records but if you look at the sum of the entire combo they are certainly an improvement. Had other heads shown similar results? Sure, but how much development time, and again, the entire sum of the combo?


Not exactly... They(ports) are available to meet applications that would make best use of them.

Thus minimizing wait time should someones application call for a port of that capability.

Bill/Calvin arent so much about bragging as letting people know what is available and what capabilities the heads have.

BTW there are 2 small ci builds in the works. Comp eliminator style, NA... and serious pump gas NA. Funds are slow, most the pieces are there for the pump gas combo. (Not me btw) Some for the other.

In hindsight it looks to me like they didnt pass on enough info of what capabilities one would require for good use of a given port capability. Sure, many dont need the extra info, and many let someone else more knowledgeable help decide, IMO it would have been helpful for some.

Contrary to what you and others have been led to believe... Bills ports are of excellent design parameters, efficiencies etc., if starting with porters castings.

Std castings get notable improvements on the basic "tune-up" porting. Real estate permitting, the big flow heads have very very good to excellent port qualities for their size.
The standard castings arent defective, they have alot of capability. Much depends on how they are applied.

How they are perceived is notable as well. An early BES built cv1 street motor makes just as much if not more power than a Kasse built P51 head Ford at similar CI, both with similar COMPROMISED performance parameters(long term street use on pump gas not max power or engine master budget).
Obviously no one criticized because BES was involved, yet no one noticed(or ignored if they did) the parameters.. most any good shop could duplicate the results...

Yet more notably ignored... Here was a Pontiac shoulder to shoulder with a popular competitors brand with a head of similar ability NOT almost as good but equal to slightly better.

The std cast 4 intake is compromised for hood clearance street strip use. A couple of race single 4's are being exaluated... testing is promising but far from complete.

You ARE correct combo's need to be built and tested to "prove" them. They too want to get them built and "proven"...

Yeah its a shame a test like Fultons didnt occur much sooner than it did.

Its a damn shame some builds got criticized by some without really assessing the sum of the build itself, or in some cases, just openly lied and made up things as they went..

BTW has the economy been boomin the past 5 years??? Has it been shaky the past 7? My economy hasnt faired so well..
Tigers initially werent showin much... BUT a few invested heavily and showed otherwise. The economy was doing pretty darn good when that happened.

Available funds do matter. This isnt Edelbrock corp. Folks involved work at other things and do this on their free time. No way should they be expected to match resources and time tables of a large corporation.

Right now Jim will not produce new head castings. Maybe never.
Meanwhile builds are in progress... Admittedly slower than than most of us would like to see.

Results may indeed change the situation... only time will tell.

Bruce-

What is the largest segment of the Pontiac world...street / strip or 1100 hp n/a combos?

The 428 project would have conveyed the capability of a small CI build and given people such as myself another option over d-ports and e-heads.

If the combos are out there that validated the various ports then shame on them for not passing on the info.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Bruce-

What is the largest segment of the Pontiac world...street / strip or 1100 hp n/a combos?

The 428 project would have conveyed the capability of a small CI build and given people such as myself another option over d-ports and e-heads.

If the combos are out there that validated the various ports then shame on them for not passing on the info.

To clarify... NOT all the ports have yet been run and there probably is more than 15.

Perhaps some dont realize you dont simply hit the enlarge button on your copier to go from a good working modest sized port, to a larger higher flowing version of it. The form may still be the same but the shape is truly different. I know thats rather abstract but I cant word it in a manner that makes it clearer.

There are guys out there racing Pontiacs and doing well that never post... some dont do internet at all... Few know anything about some of those guys, let alone what heads etc.. Others that post are reluctant to be seen as somehow braggin if they talk about their own stuff.(all brand heads btw)

There are far few CV1 owners compared to many others... If 100 sets were made... maybe...WAG... 85 owners? I dont know... of them how many are using them or have used them at all?? probably less. Set aside for a future build or just an abandoned project due to hard times.
Just like Mystic was before sellin his CV's, there are guys with cv's reluctant to deal with the circus that tends to follow cv1 posts.

Driggers seldom posts... he picked up after switching to cut-off ex configuration... He has since had them upgraded to race plate... (I saw them when they were being done) Bad news travels fast... I havent heard anything... dont know if he got some runs in or not.

Yeah its a shame some dont post... but I dont fault them so much, as I do those so quick to belittle someones accomplishments with little to no consideration of the sum of the build or the budget they had to work with...

A guy could be the hardest of workers, very knowledgeable about race engines. Yet lifes plan only allows enough budget to get to where he is and not be the shining star.
Sucks, but thats the reality of it.
He is just doing it for enjoyment. Unlike some, he doesnt want to be the hero. Yet some have the gall to to lump him in a group, label the group as lib-tards, or some other form of belittlement, then accuse him through group association of saying it is easy or some other bull crap. All the guy wants is to race, try to get wins and get some satisfaction when he can.

Instead of postin up how he's doin... he just sits back. Intimidated that he might be treated as much the same as a welfare cheat or derelict lookin for a hand out.

Worse yet we collectively have too few take a stand against the intimidators. Not that most dont see its wrong or discuss it privately... they just dont want to get caught up in it.