[PontGuy]

nytrainer, thanks for putting together the very good write-up for Darth! I've been having fun but feeling a bit lonely.

I finally bought my first dial-back timing light last year- well worth it! My 30 year old light is now retired and in the same cabinet as the 50 year old one. Anyone here remember when they actually used the ignition power to light up instead of hooking up to the battery? Not sure why I still keep that one around...

[nytrainer]

We'll get Darth on track.. Next thing you know he'll sell the Viper and pick up a round port!

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by nytrainer

We'll get Darth on track.. Next thing you know he'll sell the Viper and pick up a round port!

I searched round port and all I saw was something for headers and some audio subwoofers (doubt this is it).

The Viper is epic and I have no plans on selling it. No matter where you drive there is someone snapping a cell-phone pic. I love it.

[nytrainer]

Well I don't fit in a Viper but they are sure nice to look at lol. Round ports are the Ram Air IV, 455 HO, etc.. Pontiacs. Figured you'd be an ace on these cars soon and you'd swap the Viper (jk).
Many of the new timing lights (like the one you bought) also have RPM function so it makes the job real easy.
Not sure what the specs on your engine would be but 36 degrees total (initial & mechanical) isn't set in stone so just measure what you have (you can set the light to 36 but adjust it to set the mark at zero) and see what you have after you bring up the rpm's. My 350 HO likes 33 total all in by 2500 for example. The adjustability is going to be the initial setting (w/o vacuum advance) and the rate (springs) at which full advance happens. So if the distributor is capable of a 20 degree centrifugal advance at 2800 rpm you would need 16 degrees initial advance if you were shooting for a total of 36. I think you have a good grasp on the concept.

[PontGuy]

Originally Posted by nytrainer

We'll get Darth on track.. Next thing you know he'll sell the Viper and pick up a round port!

I am convinced he will get there. Just have to get all the new technology way of thinking out of his head.

Yeah the Viper. While you guys are working out the ignition timing I have to tell my Viper story.

I had a friend a few years back that was into buying and selling used high-$$ performance cars. It was great fun for me because I got to drive cars that people dream about. Mostly European exotics, but he also liked Shelby's and had a 67 Cobra GT500 (just like Elanor) for a while. But the baddest car he ever bought was a Viper that was re-worked by the Shelby shop. Carroll even signed the dash. The torque and power were insane, actually very scary for a street car. And it had the most incredible sounding racing lope. The European cars were fun, but in my mind the Viper was the real deal. I really wanted that car but no way I could justify the cost, especially for a car that was barely street-worthy. Since then I've always wondered what a normal (not race-prepped) Viper is like but never have had the opportunity to drive one.

Wish you were bit closer Darth

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

The European cars were fun, but in my mind the Viper was the real deal. I really wanted that car but no way I could justify the cost, especially for a car that was barely street-worthy. Since then I've always wondered what a normal (not race-prepped) Viper is like but never have had the opportunity to drive one.

Wish you were bit closer Darth

Not trying to turn this into a Viper thread, but I do agree the Vipers are epic. The thing I've found with being a member of numerous different car forums is that there is always someone with a faster car and an unlimited bank account. I can't keep up to these people, so I figure as long as I am happy with my sports cars it is all good.

A few years ago when I was moving from a rural dump in Canada to Edmonton, AB I decided I wanted to buy a sports car. I had two mustangs when I was youger, a 93 mustang 5.0 (yay) and a 76 mustang II (boo!) so I have been a mustang fan, but they seem to be everywhere. So I leaned towards a used Vette, but I was drawn to the crazy curves and rare-ness of the Viper. Thanks to the bad economy of a lot of the USA, these cars aren't easy sells, so I bought this off ebay for $31.7k with 18xxx miles. It was a California car for most it's life, one buyer brought it to wyoming, and then I got it shipped to the Montana border and drove it home from there (The Custom S story is similar, but not near as happy). The only negative thing about the car is that performance parts are crazy expensive. All I can afford is to buy someone's used parts (bought a used magnaflow catback last winter, and some 2008 rims/wheels locally). Part of the draw towards getting an old muscle car is the cheapness in parts....I an tinker on it and not break the bank. Now I just have to find a used set of headers for the Viper..I hear it really makes them angry

[gto4evr]

Been on and off and I missed this thread too, just caught up on it. wow, I'll join the crowd with the comments - why can't you live closer!?! I'd be over there tomorrow!

So what's the verdict on the timing? I'll have to say I feel left behind in the times with this discussion of all in timing and new timing lights that have these digital settings on them. I guess I'm still lost in the past with disconnecting the advance, connecting the tach, and setting the dwell to 30 and the initial timing. unless I missed it, you're still running points correct? (all my cars still run points, I still don't see the benefit to HEI for a regular street driver) One thing I keep seeing is the 12 BTC being tossed out there for initial timing. I've got a pair of AC Delco factory tune up manuals. The 1969 manual says all 67 were 6 degrees btc, the 71 manual shows 67 400 at 9 degrees so not sure why they changed that but they didn't get into the 12's until the low compression motors in 71. Just be careful that you don't get yourself into the over advanced land that you get it running right where you want it and create the dreaded "hot start" issue that everyone then mis-diagnoses as a bad starter or cables when it's really an over-advanced timing situation.

[nytrainer]

Darth,
GTO4ever brings up a good point. As I mentioned I do not know the specs for your engine so any numbers I used in my examples were just that...examples. My 68 350 HO factory initial spec is 9 BTDC. If you're not sure of the specs throw the question out there. Vehicle weight, tire size, rear axle ratio, fuel quality, carb. settings, automatic trans. etc.. will be considered when fine tuning your timing. Many run the same combo as you so you can get a better idea where you want to be if you ask.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by nytrainer

Darth,
GTO4ever brings up a good point. As I mentioned I do not know the specs for your engine so any numbers I used in my examples were just that...examples. My 68 350 HO factory initial spec is 9 BTDC. If you're not sure of the specs throw the question out there. Vehicle weight, tire size, rear axle ratio, fuel quality, carb. settings, automatic trans. etc.. will be considered when fine tuning your timing. Many run the same combo as you so you can get a better idea where you want to be if you ask.

Ahh, this stuff is harsh. It seems as though a person has to have this set up before he can set this up, but then he can't tune that before the next thing is tuned. Seems to be going in a circle for me For now though, getting the timing in the general area so it doesn't stall out on me is a good start to it all. From what I've observed with the P/O he seem to have let things slide when it came to this car so getting it properly running is a step in the right direction.

Should I go check the timing at idle for interest sake?

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

unless I missed it, you're still running points correct? (all my cars still run points, I still don't see the benefit to HEI for a regular street driver)

No, I did a pertronix electronic ignition last month. I decided for the learning curve I have and wanting to get this car rocking, I wanted to put in an electronic ignition and not learn about setting points, etc. One less thing for a rookie like me to stress and fart around with.

Funny thing is I set the all out timing at 36, but totally forgot to check the timing at idle. Ah well...something to do later.

[Darth Menace]

Alrighty, so here goes. My first timing episode.

Turned on the car, let it warm up, pulled the vacuum advance, choke fully open. All out timing was set at 26. So I ended up setting it at 36 and decided to tighten the distributor bolt, and then when I did i set it all out of whack again Anyway, eventually got it set to 36 and got it tightened down without messing it up again. As far as I can tell (which isn't much) it seemed good.

Prior to this I would often stall when going into drive, but it didn't (progress for sure). My only gripe is when I put it into reverse the rpm went down a bit lower sounding as though it was close to stalling. I am assuming I just have to raise the idle a bit (I don't have a tach yet so maybe the idle is a bit low, plus next step is the carb adjustment so maybe all that will settle out in the end. Overall not a big worry in my books)

So ya, who knows if it's 100% right, but it runs much much better than it did before (going by the little amount I drove it today since it's not plated. Down the driveway, u-turn about 50 feet down and back into the driveway.)

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

nytrainer, thanks for putting together the very good write-up for Darth! I've been having fun but feeling a bit lonely.

I finally bought my first dial-back timing light last year- well worth it! My 30 year old light is now retired and in the same cabinet as the 50 year old one. Anyone here remember when they actually used the ignition power to light up instead of hooking up to the battery? Not sure why I still keep that one around...

Don't feel bad. I added the bad headlight switch to my box of goodies for the car. Totally useless junk, and I keep it.