[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

The European cars were fun, but in my mind the Viper was the real deal. I really wanted that car but no way I could justify the cost, especially for a car that was barely street-worthy. Since then I've always wondered what a normal (not race-prepped) Viper is like but never have had the opportunity to drive one.

Wish you were bit closer Darth

Not trying to turn this into a Viper thread, but I do agree the Vipers are epic. The thing I've found with being a member of numerous different car forums is that there is always someone with a faster car and an unlimited bank account. I can't keep up to these people, so I figure as long as I am happy with my sports cars it is all good.

A few years ago when I was moving from a rural dump in Canada to Edmonton, AB I decided I wanted to buy a sports car. I had two mustangs when I was youger, a 93 mustang 5.0 (yay) and a 76 mustang II (boo!) so I have been a mustang fan, but they seem to be everywhere. So I leaned towards a used Vette, but I was drawn to the crazy curves and rare-ness of the Viper. Thanks to the bad economy of a lot of the USA, these cars aren't easy sells, so I bought this off ebay for $31.7k with 18xxx miles. It was a California car for most it's life, one buyer brought it to wyoming, and then I got it shipped to the Montana border and drove it home from there (The Custom S story is similar, but not near as happy). The only negative thing about the car is that performance parts are crazy expensive. All I can afford is to buy someone's used parts (bought a used magnaflow catback last winter, and some 2008 rims/wheels locally). Part of the draw towards getting an old muscle car is the cheapness in parts....I an tinker on it and not break the bank. Now I just have to find a used set of headers for the Viper..I hear it really makes them angry

[gto4evr]

Been on and off and I missed this thread too, just caught up on it. wow, I'll join the crowd with the comments - why can't you live closer!?! I'd be over there tomorrow!

So what's the verdict on the timing? I'll have to say I feel left behind in the times with this discussion of all in timing and new timing lights that have these digital settings on them. I guess I'm still lost in the past with disconnecting the advance, connecting the tach, and setting the dwell to 30 and the initial timing. unless I missed it, you're still running points correct? (all my cars still run points, I still don't see the benefit to HEI for a regular street driver) One thing I keep seeing is the 12 BTC being tossed out there for initial timing. I've got a pair of AC Delco factory tune up manuals. The 1969 manual says all 67 were 6 degrees btc, the 71 manual shows 67 400 at 9 degrees so not sure why they changed that but they didn't get into the 12's until the low compression motors in 71. Just be careful that you don't get yourself into the over advanced land that you get it running right where you want it and create the dreaded "hot start" issue that everyone then mis-diagnoses as a bad starter or cables when it's really an over-advanced timing situation.

[nytrainer]

Darth,
GTO4ever brings up a good point. As I mentioned I do not know the specs for your engine so any numbers I used in my examples were just that...examples. My 68 350 HO factory initial spec is 9 BTDC. If you're not sure of the specs throw the question out there. Vehicle weight, tire size, rear axle ratio, fuel quality, carb. settings, automatic trans. etc.. will be considered when fine tuning your timing. Many run the same combo as you so you can get a better idea where you want to be if you ask.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by nytrainer

Darth,
GTO4ever brings up a good point. As I mentioned I do not know the specs for your engine so any numbers I used in my examples were just that...examples. My 68 350 HO factory initial spec is 9 BTDC. If you're not sure of the specs throw the question out there. Vehicle weight, tire size, rear axle ratio, fuel quality, carb. settings, automatic trans. etc.. will be considered when fine tuning your timing. Many run the same combo as you so you can get a better idea where you want to be if you ask.

Ahh, this stuff is harsh. It seems as though a person has to have this set up before he can set this up, but then he can't tune that before the next thing is tuned. Seems to be going in a circle for me For now though, getting the timing in the general area so it doesn't stall out on me is a good start to it all. From what I've observed with the P/O he seem to have let things slide when it came to this car so getting it properly running is a step in the right direction.

Should I go check the timing at idle for interest sake?

[nytrainer]

Darth,
All those parameters (weight, gas, axle, etc) are considered when curving the distributor so don't worry about that at this point. I'd check the initial because by just setting the "all in" to 36 your initial may be too high. Don't want to get into a detonation problem. If spec is supposed to be 6 BTDC you don't want to advance it too much. BTW my engine's spec calls for 29-33 "all in" so best to make sure you are in specs. Now that you know HOW to do it just get the spec and dial her in.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by nytrainer

Darth,
All those parameters (weight, gas, axle, etc) are considered when curving the distributor so don't worry about that at this point. I'd check the initial because by just setting the "all in" to 36 your initial may be too high. Don't want to get into a detonation problem. If spec is supposed to be 6 BTDC you don't want to advance it too much. BTW my engine's spec calls for 29-33 "all in" so best to make sure you are in specs. Now that you know HOW to do it just get the spec and dial her in.

hmmm I just went and tried. The way I set the all out timing was set my light to 36, rev and then adjust until it's at 0. I just went and tried to check the timing for the idle timing and i don't know how to check it hahah. It is not anywhere near the numbers. It will read at the 0 on the numbers when I have the timing light set to 30. Not sure if I am doing that right there.

On another note...this snorkle thing for the air breather...where should it be pointed? Directly at the fan or to one side? I moved this and it made a huge difference on the idle

[nytrainer]

Originally Posted by Darth Menace

hmmm I just went and tried. The way I set the all out timing was set my light to 36, rev and then adjust until it's at 0. I just went and tried to check the timing for the idle timing and i don't know how to check it hahah. It is not anywhere near the numbers. It will read at the 0 on the numbers when I have the timing light set to 30. Not sure if I am doing that right there.

On another note...this snorkle thing for the air breather...where should it be pointed? Directly at the fan or to one side? I moved this and it made a huge difference on the idle

Ummm, alright lets see. I am stating the obvious here but you do have the light connected to #1 cylinder?
When you saw the "all in" timing was 36 (still unsure what the spec should be for your engine) you had the engine at a sustained 2500-3000 rpm with vacuum advance hose disconnected and plugged? To check timing at idle simply (with vacuum advance disconnected and hose plugged) point the timing light and adjust the timimg light until the mark on the balancer is at zero. Then look at the reading on the timing light.
Usually when you are setting the initial timing you move the distributor. You then check what the total is afterwards (as described prior). Not really a great idea to be fiddling with the distributor while the engine is running at 2500-3000 rpm. When you adjust initial timing higher or lower the total timing will follow it (either up or down the same amount). You can't adjust one without affecting the other so do all your adjustments at idle. To try and clarify that lets say you have 12 initial and 34 total as observed (random example). If you decrease the initial to 9 (3 less) your total will now be 3 less (now 31) or increase initial 2 degrees then total will increase 2 also.
My replies are wordy I know but I am trying to make sure you get it.

[PontGuy]

Originally Posted by nytrainer

Darth,
I'd check the initial because by just setting the "all in" to 36 your initial may be too high. Don't want to get into a detonation problem.

Yes you don't want detonation, but you don't want to give up power either. So once you have it dialed in close and know what the base is you will need to test drive and adjust. If it pings/detonates anywhere, then back off. If it hesitates, then advance. I would not go past 38 all-in no matter what. With the compression numbers that you got and assuming it has at least a mild performance cam, and assuming a typical curve in the distributor, my bet is that 34-36 will be about right.

Going further with this once you understand how your engine combo responds you can custom-curve the distributor to get the most out of it. In the past I've done this myself but worked with Suntuned to curve the distributor for the 455 I have now. But we are still a long, long way from optimizing to that level on your car, and it really is not necessary unless you like tinkering to get every last HP out (like I do.)

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

unless I missed it, you're still running points correct? (all my cars still run points, I still don't see the benefit to HEI for a regular street driver)

No, I did a pertronix electronic ignition last month. I decided for the learning curve I have and wanting to get this car rocking, I wanted to put in an electronic ignition and not learn about setting points, etc. One less thing for a rookie like me to stress and fart around with.

Funny thing is I set the all out timing at 36, but totally forgot to check the timing at idle. Ah well...something to do later.

[Darth Menace]

Alrighty, so here goes. My first timing episode.

Turned on the car, let it warm up, pulled the vacuum advance, choke fully open. All out timing was set at 26. So I ended up setting it at 36 and decided to tighten the distributor bolt, and then when I did i set it all out of whack again Anyway, eventually got it set to 36 and got it tightened down without messing it up again. As far as I can tell (which isn't much) it seemed good.

Prior to this I would often stall when going into drive, but it didn't (progress for sure). My only gripe is when I put it into reverse the rpm went down a bit lower sounding as though it was close to stalling. I am assuming I just have to raise the idle a bit (I don't have a tach yet so maybe the idle is a bit low, plus next step is the carb adjustment so maybe all that will settle out in the end. Overall not a big worry in my books)

So ya, who knows if it's 100% right, but it runs much much better than it did before (going by the little amount I drove it today since it's not plated. Down the driveway, u-turn about 50 feet down and back into the driveway.)