[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I thought he was sort of joking about that. lol

Ram3 Auto A/C non-Posi more than likely still had its #'s drivetrain intact when O'Donnell sold it to someone.

They only put 3 months / 3000 miles on these cars - whichever came first.
Unless noted otherwise (Over 3 Months or Over 6 Months etc...) - when they were used/sold in this manner.

Full warranty included.

Ore did suggest it is completely Non-Matching #'s now.
So thought he just sorta threw all that together tongue in cheek or sumpn.

IF something went haywire during use, they would have put another new duplicate engine in the car before it left PMD. Or destroyed the car.
Whichever made more sense depending on car condition overall.

This car could/should actually be called "Test Car # 0339"
But any testing it might have done, would have been more mundane.
Maybe it was tested for MPG or potential electrical conflicts.
More of that nature, if any at all.

Sometimes things fall under an umbrella for the bean counters etc.
It looks more like a brass hat's Eldorado on the Invoice, than a Test Car.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Heck of a good write up on those Keith !
Thanks for taking the time to do those and share with us all.

And an awesome little book shared by Mike too !

Like Keith has said - in general not many true Engineering Test Cars finish their business in good enough order to be sold to the public with a full warranty. We are lucky when they do , and then come out of the woodwork to grab our attention on here.

We only have 5 firm documented Engineering Based cars from 1969-1973 pop up in the past 10 years on here. Talking only about cars brought to our attention that were previously unknown.

Once upon a time most folks on here were calling every car that popped up with xx-99x (other than xx-991) anywhere on the Invoice - an ENGINEERING CAR .
That was a hard tradition to break.
Without help from some guys like Keith, i'd still be fighting that battle.

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

This car could/should actually be called "Test Car # 0339"
But any testing it might have done, would have been more mundane.
Maybe it was tested for MPG or potential electrical conflicts.
More of that nature, if any at all.

Sometimes things fall under an umbrella for the bean counters etc.
It looks more like a brass hat's Eldorado on the Invoice, than a Test Car.

I didn't want to go too deep into explaining this last part , but maybe I will later.
Or in parts at a time. or sumpn

There are some finer points I was told to look for by some great resources I used to have years back. This one is just a little different than the other ENG/DEV Invoice case studies in the past - as far as the direction of some of the finer points.

Some things in billing may have been mildly different in the 60's and early 70's than what Keith got acquainted with starting in the late 70's when he went to GM.
Thats only a very very friendly speculation at the most. Not a guarantee.
Personally - I was 6 years old when this car was sold.
And been going to school ever since then - it seems like.

I'm hoping at least Invoice #1 will materialize for this car, or the buildsheet.
Either one would save a LOT of typing.
All the typing in the world won't prove anything better than a paper trail will.



[edit - not saying my theory can't be wrong, saying its too much trouble really to explain all the points that got me there. Lets see if some more paper unravels on this machine.]

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I didn't want to go too deep into explaining this last part , but maybe I will later.
Or in parts at a time. or sumpn

There are some finer points I was told to look for by some great resources I used to have years back. This one is just a little different than the other ENG/DEV Invoice case studies in the past - as far as the direction of some of the finer points.

Some things in billing may have been mildly different in the 60's and early 70's than what Keith got acquainted with starting in the late 70's when he went to GM.
Thats only a very very friendly speculation at the most. Not a guarantee.
Personally - I was 6 years old when this car was sold.
And been going to school ever since then - it seems like.

I'm hoping at least Invoice #1 will materialize for this car, or the buildsheet.
Either one would save a LOT of typing.
All the typing in the world won't prove anything better than a paper trail will.

Anything is fair game, actually.

I personally have contented vehicles to be ordered by the fleet coordinator and placed in the development fleet with the expressed purpose of purchasing them on behalf of a friend when they timed out.

Didn't work out, though, when the "buyer" couldn't come up with the cash.

[MikeNoun]

Keith, great info, thank you. And BVZ doing great analysis as always.

I'm not at liberty to post the details or the contents right now, but I have a 1969 GM Proving Grounds spiral bound report titled "1969 Proving Ground Cars - Specifications and Engineering Test Summaries" marked GM Confidential that I hope to be reporting on in the near future.

Mike

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

Keith, great info, thank you. And BVZ doing great analysis as always.

I'm not at liberty to post the details or the contents right now, but I have a 1969 GM Proving Grounds spiral bound report titled "1969 Proving Ground Cars - Specifications and Engineering Test Summaries" marked GM Confidential that I hope to be reporting on in the near future.

Mike

Pontiac only? Or across all GM nameplates?

You know I'm in intrigued...



K

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

.. have a 1969 GM Proving Grounds spiral bound report titled "1969 Proving Ground Cars ...

Steve Hoog would be charting his course to Illinois this very moment if he were still with us. He loved that stuff. [teardrop]

High hopes it lists the two 69 Birds we have documented.
Orange 400 HO #9749
Red IV #9753 - or 9733

and the infamous elusive mysterious #9723 Orange Bird

W
O
W

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Anything is fair game, actually.

I personally have contented vehicles to be ordered by the fleet coordinator and placed in the development fleet with the expressed purpose of purchasing them on behalf of a friend when they timed out.

Didn't work out, though, when the "buyer" couldn't come up with the cash.

Is that offer still fair game? I could option out a fun Camaro that engineering could have their way with!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Mike, totally forgot about 1 more 69 ENG/DEV car - if you can check on them in that Book.
(the total of 5 in past 10 years i posted earlier, should be 6 total - new math)

69 GTO Silver Ram3 Auto 3.90 Gears = Car # 9327 (Mega Loaded)

The Red IV Bird had Arctic Wiper Blades, 4.33 Gears, Automatic - so obviously it was a windshield wiper Test Car .. ahem

The Red Bird and the Silver GTO belong to PY members.
Sure they would be blown away if any data is logged about them.

Originally Posted by The Boss

Is that offer still fair game? I could option out a fun Camaro... !

First its a 1LE , now its another Camaro
Mr.BowTie ? Is that who you are now ? Really ?

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

First its a 1LE , now its another Camaro
Mr.BowTie ? Is that who you are now ? Really ?

Well if they were still building Pontiacs we could talk about something else - however....

What would you order if he was building one for you?

[orejudge]

This is what makes this hobby fun. If everything was cut and dry there would be nothing to talk about, and the what ifs would not exist. Great to have knowledgeable people here digging to get any info they can !

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by The Boss

What would you order if he was building one for you?

Something that gets at least 50 mpg - and runs on rain water.
Rain is all we have had for about 3 weeks now.