[johnta1]

And a number above 2 digits:

z115xxx
pattern Judge #103
2/19/69

TT 58 4sp zzb508840

[judger69]

Originally Posted by johnta1

And a number above 2 digits:

z115xxx
pattern Judge #103
2/19/69

TT 58 4sp zzb508840

I have some info on this pattern Judge Dealer Order #00103 car z1155xx:

This car has a 01D cowl tag (I have a pic of it).

Freemont 58 4spd. zzb508840

Shipped to zone lot # 24 991 on Feb. 19, and sold to a dealership in California on March 11.

BVZ hope this doesn't aggravate your headache.

Is that a normal spread from the cowl tag 01D to the ship date Feb. 19?

[RAIVJUDGE]

Thanks for the information. Framingham and Fremont did there own thing

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by judger69

BVZ hope this doesn't aggravate your headache.

Is that a normal spread from the cowl tag 01D to the ship date Feb. 19?

LoL, not at all a problem on the old headaches Man.

The "ship dates" on these Pattern Cars is when they left from the Zone Storage Holding Lots (xx-99x). Relates nothing to when the car was built or left the factory.
These are their own little animal in many ways.

I would expect a Fremont 115xxx to be a 1D
114xxx to be 1C
113xxx to be 1B

It probably won't be "exactly" that cut and dry - but pretty close.
With the the normal few exceptions to be expected here and there around the edges.

Have seen examples of 1C and 1D with earlier "ship dates" than a 1B .
The "ship dates" are virtually useless on these other than to be entertaining,
and indicates there was likely a timed release statute involved - we suppose.

They have a ship date / date of note / and a date of interest starting (if GMAC).
The Feb date is when it left the zone lot to go to that dealer.
The March date is probably the interest date.

[judger69]

OK that clears that up then. Thanks.

About the dealer order 00103 has there been other pattern cars with the dealer order numbers above 100??

Or any other 01D Freemonts with the same 00103 code?

[johnta1]

There might be others with higher numbers than 103.

But there would be only one 103 in Fremont, or only one per plant.
(I think)

Not a lot is actually known I think about these.
We keep learning more and more as time goes on and other examples show up.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Well actually ....
( I ) think these are weekly schedule running total / head count , per plant.

Which means we would see repetition on a lot of numbers.
If i'm at least half way right.
But maybe not the higher/highest numbers.

Have a 1B Fremont with Order 00143 , so that first week would have also had a 103 - potentially.

Will have to go through all mine again to look for repeats in same plant.

Too many examples from 17 - 77 for them to have been grand totals of a 6-7 week production period of Pattern Cars.

If we go with 1,000 units ... that would be 200 per plant (5 plants)
If we go 2,000 units approx ... that is 400 per plant.

Here is another group of factoids - for Fremont
From what would be on the trim tags (1B only have buildsheet)

1B - 03875 body number / xxxxxx job sequence number / 768768 job plan number
1C - 04448 / 140255 / 801945
1D - 04523 / 170376 / 801506
1D - 04565 / 16076x / 872959
1E - 04722 / 200444 / 809956

That slop isn't going to help much of anything . lmao

[judger69]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Here is another group of factoids - for Fremont
From what would be on the trim tags (1B only have buildsheet)

1B - 03875 body number / xxxxxx job sequence number / 768768 job plan number
1C - 04448 / 140255 / 801945
1D - 04523 / 170376 / 801506
1D - 04565 / 16076x / 872959
1E - 04722 / 200444 / 809956

That slop isn't going to help much of anything . lmao

I'll throw my slop on the pile. The 01D judge with dealer order 00103 I referred to earlier has the following on the cowl tag: (very much in line with your slop)

01D - 04623 / 180119 / 801647 I hope this helps if nothing but more info for ya.

As someone said earlier, keep up the good work gents!!!

I know you'll crack the code with enough info & research.

I can send you a pic of the cowl tag if needed.

[cv340]

Hello North, wondering if I could catch you here. Any comments on this car matching numbers engine one repaint 35 years ago.. Is it what you guys call a pattern car? Have you seen an earlier car from Baltimore? Any input would be appreciated from a mopar guy thank you so much.

[johnta1]

That is not a 'Pattern Judge'.
One , it would have to be a Zone car, which this is a Customer ordered car.
Two, the M-21 and a couple other options make it not a Pattern Judge.


What is the cowl tag date?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

It's very very similar to another pre-release Canadian car I remember from the past.
Basically identical but I don't recall it having a wood wheel on it like this one.
There are a few known 01B body date cars , but not many.

It's not a Pattern Car .
But has its own uniqueness being pre-release to Canada , non-pattern , but pattern'istic in some degrees.