[judger69]

OK that clears that up then. Thanks.

About the dealer order 00103 has there been other pattern cars with the dealer order numbers above 100??

Or any other 01D Freemonts with the same 00103 code?

[johnta1]

There might be others with higher numbers than 103.

But there would be only one 103 in Fremont, or only one per plant.
(I think)

Not a lot is actually known I think about these.
We keep learning more and more as time goes on and other examples show up.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Well actually ....
( I ) think these are weekly schedule running total / head count , per plant.

Which means we would see repetition on a lot of numbers.
If i'm at least half way right.
But maybe not the higher/highest numbers.

Have a 1B Fremont with Order 00143 , so that first week would have also had a 103 - potentially.

Will have to go through all mine again to look for repeats in same plant.

Too many examples from 17 - 77 for them to have been grand totals of a 6-7 week production period of Pattern Cars.

If we go with 1,000 units ... that would be 200 per plant (5 plants)
If we go 2,000 units approx ... that is 400 per plant.

Here is another group of factoids - for Fremont
From what would be on the trim tags (1B only have buildsheet)

1B - 03875 body number / xxxxxx job sequence number / 768768 job plan number
1C - 04448 / 140255 / 801945
1D - 04523 / 170376 / 801506
1D - 04565 / 16076x / 872959
1E - 04722 / 200444 / 809956

That slop isn't going to help much of anything . lmao

[judger69]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Here is another group of factoids - for Fremont
From what would be on the trim tags (1B only have buildsheet)

1B - 03875 body number / xxxxxx job sequence number / 768768 job plan number
1C - 04448 / 140255 / 801945
1D - 04523 / 170376 / 801506
1D - 04565 / 16076x / 872959
1E - 04722 / 200444 / 809956

That slop isn't going to help much of anything . lmao

I'll throw my slop on the pile. The 01D judge with dealer order 00103 I referred to earlier has the following on the cowl tag: (very much in line with your slop)

01D - 04623 / 180119 / 801647 I hope this helps if nothing but more info for ya.

As someone said earlier, keep up the good work gents!!!

I know you'll crack the code with enough info & research.

I can send you a pic of the cowl tag if needed.

[cv340]

Hello North, wondering if I could catch you here. Any comments on this car matching numbers engine one repaint 35 years ago.. Is it what you guys call a pattern car? Have you seen an earlier car from Baltimore? Any input would be appreciated from a mopar guy thank you so much.

[johnta1]

That is not a 'Pattern Judge'.
One , it would have to be a Zone car, which this is a Customer ordered car.
Two, the M-21 and a couple other options make it not a Pattern Judge.


What is the cowl tag date?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

It's very very similar to another pre-release Canadian car I remember from the past.
Basically identical but I don't recall it having a wood wheel on it like this one.
There are a few known 01B body date cars , but not many.

It's not a Pattern Car .
But has its own uniqueness being pre-release to Canada , non-pattern , but pattern'istic in some degrees.

[cv340]

Thank you very much for some input here. It may not be a pattern car in the sense. It’s not a Usa built car or built for I should say.. I’m not interested in it being a pattern car… not sure that affects the value. I’m just interested in how early it is or how early it was actually built or shipped. This is the earliest Car shipped in the 69 registry for judges? actually, there is one other car with the same ship date. Do you concur on that? It’s the earliest showing documented 69 Judge times two? Thank you.

[johnta1]

Just noticed this thread doesn't have the latest web page on the Pattern Judges.

Pattern Judges with Comments

This will help on deciding what is Pattern Judges.

BVZ's thread on Pattern Judges


Yours is probably a very early Judge. I have one with a lot earlier PHS shipped date. Don't know the cowl tag date.

Yours is probably a 01C?

[johnta1]

This is one with earlier PHS shipped date, but a little higher VIN.


Added another one except buildsheet: Jan.4th
it is a Pattern Judge

[cv340]

Oh no, that’s fine. I thank you much. I just thought when you put the one post with all the data out there you had mentioned ill try this… I just kind of thought that maybe you were wondering if somebody else would pick up on where you weren’t quite sure. No I’m good. It’s an early car .One last question. How many US cars are in that 01B group that you know of. I thank you much: i’ll have a look for a sheet in that car because the interior seems to be original. I can only assume the carpet was changed. I’ll get back to you here if I find one, but it doesn’t sound like there’s many or if any build sheets in Baltimore cars.. PHS and vintage vehicle registry had nothing earlier. I was truly surprised and how much information and how much you knew about production dates and data… like who are you ..? you were so nice to me here. I feel like we should be friends. But I gotta tell you I’m a Canadian Trump supporter lol and you’re not old enough to have worked on the production lines. I’m sure.

[johnta1]

Pontiac Oakland Museum has a pic of 849 Judges made in January.
No idea of which weeks, other than production started mid Jan.


They were probably ramping up, with March the most made.