[gtofreek]

Most people, it seems to me, way overthink the starter cable thing. The starter is, by far, the biggest electrical draw on the entire system. 200-300 amps, depending on starter type, and load. You only need a cable large enough to carry that current, for the distance it has to travel. For under hood battery applications, 4 gauge is plenty of cable for the starter. 2 gauge is the most you should ever need. If the battery is in the trunk, then I would step it up to 1 gauge. Any cable large enough to operate the starter, will be double the cable you need for charging the battery. Since electricity travels on the outside of the wire core, the more strands of fine wire it has, the better. Welding cable has very fine wire, and lots of it. This is why they don't run solid core wire in cars like they do in houses. The more the voltage of the system, the less wire gauge you need, because the amperage draw drops accordingly. 6 volt systems need even heavier battery cable because the voltage is simply not there to push the amperage through, so they need as much wire strands as they can get.

Standard car battery cable is all anyone should ever need, whether it be 4 gauge, 2 gauge, 000 gauge. Anymore than than your system needs is a waste. After doing starting and charging systems for 11 years[and 10's of thousands of cars fixed] I am convinced that 1 gauge is the heaviest cable anyone would ever need to start their Pontiacs. Anymore than that is a waste.

[HWYSTR455]

My question is still WHY use welding cable when SAE or ISO rated auto cables are available, and can be roughly the same cost?

http://www.champcable.com/product_pd...Comparison.pdf

" SAE and ISO committees develop standards for wire and cables used in trucks and automobiles. These standards are designed to ensure wire will perform safely and adequately in the harsh environments that vehicles are subjected to on a regular basis. The committee members have years of experience in engineering, design and development work for the automotive and commercial vehicle industries. Listed below are actual test result and pictures illustrating the type of catastrophic failures that can and will occur using the wrong type of wire, such as welding cable! "

Most of the welding cable I've seen doesn't have any markings on it, so you aren't sure what it's rated for, not to mention it's larger in diameter. Then there's also EMI to consider. Why don't OEs use welding cable?

All I can say is use what you want, I know what I feel safer using. Just because 'it works' doesn't mean it's the best choice. There's a spec for auto use, why not do some homework on it instead of taking other's word for it?

.

[gtofreek]

I agree. There is no real need to have to use welding cable. Regular automotive cable will work just fine. I will probably use 2 gauge on my GTO, as I am not planning on putting the battery in the trunk. At least not for now anyway. When I had my battery in the trunk[8D tractor battery], I ran 1 gauge cable to the front for both positive, and negative. I built a super torque starter for it. One day, my distributor took a dump so I had to crank my car home with the starter, in first gear, shifting to 2'nd when it got rolling. Cranked it for over a mile to get home. Wore the brushes down on the starter, but the cable, the rest of the starter, and battery held up fine.

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

My question is still WHY use welding cable when SAE or ISO rated auto cables are available, and can be roughly the same cost?

http://www.champcable.com/product_pd...Comparison.pdf

" SAE and ISO committees develop standards for wire and cables used in trucks and automobiles. These standards are designed to ensure wire will perform safely and adequately in the harsh environments that vehicles are subjected to on a regular basis. The committee members have years of experience in engineering, design and development work for the automotive and commercial vehicle industries. Listed below are actual test result and pictures illustrating the type of catastrophic failures that can and will occur using the wrong type of wire, such as welding cable! "

Most of the welding cable I've seen doesn't have any markings on it, so you aren't sure what it's rated for, not to mention it's larger in diameter. Then there's also EMI to consider. Why don't OEs use welding cable?

All I can say is use what you want, I know what I feel safer using. Just because 'it works' doesn't mean it's the best choice. There's a spec for auto use, why not do some homework on it instead of taking other's word for it?

.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

My question is still WHY use welding cable when SAE or ISO rated auto cables are available, and can be roughly the same cost?

" SAE and ISO committees develop standards for wire and cables used in trucks and automobiles. These standards are designed to ensure wire will perform safely and adequately in the harsh environments that vehicles are subjected to on a regular basis. The committee members have years of experience in engineering, design and development work for the automotive and commercial vehicle industries. Listed below are actual test result and pictures illustrating the type of catastrophic failures that can and will occur using the wrong type of wire, such as welding cable! "

Most of the welding cable I've seen doesn't have any markings on it, so you aren't sure what it's rated for, not to mention it's larger in diameter. Then there's also EMI to consider. Why don't OEs use welding cable?

All I can say is use what you want, I know what I feel safer using. Just because 'it works' doesn't mean it's the best choice. There's a spec for auto use, why not do some homework on it instead of taking other's word for it? .

Racers have used Copper Welding Cable since the 1950s in their race cars.

Most automotive battery cables today are designed on the premise of "use the cheapest material that will pass the minimum specs to get the job done."

Copper prices have been high for years. The manufactures run durability tests to find the cheapest material and design that will pass the tests. (They ARE trying to make money on the cars they sell.)

Everything that you say is true but copper Welding cable is not inferior to OEM wire if used in a proper racing application. There are no cold temps, water ingestion, desert dust, or oily environments (if the engine is sealed up properly) to worry about.

Tom V.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

For under hood battery applications, 4 gauge is plenty of cable for the starter. 2 gauge is the most you should ever need. If the battery is in the trunk, then I would step it up to 1 gauge. Any cable large enough to operate the starter, will be double the cable you need for charging the battery.

I agree, and my experience says the same thing (I do high current charging systems for a living but that's just an aside). My only reason for using 2ga on my cars is that most of the generic parts store 4ga wires, while passable, aren't exactly that stellar for the long haul. I've never had a problem with 2ga and I've got some on a car that are 10+ years old and work perfectly still, even in +100F heat.

[Bobalong]

Just as thought as I read this thread.
The previous owner of my 70 GTO installed the RAlll exhaust manifolds. In addition he installed the tube that the battery cable passes thru.
It leads the + pos cable right between the hot cast iron manifold tubes on the drivers side down to the starter.
Now I pride myself on having a pretty factory stock looking car. Not 100% mind you but pretty close. In 08 during the first engine rebuild I eliminated that tube. I'm sure the Pontiac engineers had their reason for that cable route, but it just defied common sense to put an unfused, heavy cable right in harms way.
I bought a longer red cable and routed it down the front of the engine and then back to the starter. Is it factory correct ? NOPE. Out of harms way and I no longer worry about a melt down, short circuit, or catastrophic under hood fire.

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by Bobalong

Just as thought as I read this thread.
The previous owner of my 70 GTO installed the RAlll exhaust manifolds. In addition he installed the tube that the battery cable passes thru.
It leads the + pos cable right between the hot cast iron manifold tubes on the drivers side down to the starter.
Now I pride myself on having a pretty factory stock looking car. Not 100% mind you but pretty close. In 08 during the first engine rebuild I eliminated that tube. I'm sure the Pontiac engineers had their reason for that cable route, but it just defied common sense to put an unfused, heavy cable right in harms way.
I bought a longer red cable and routed it down the front of the engine and then back to the starter. Is it factory correct ? NOPE. Out of harms way and I no longer worry about a melt down, short circuit, or catastrophic under hood fire.

I run my POS cable over the top of the drivers inner fender and then down the firewall. Other than the few inches from the battery to the fenderwell, you can't see it at all.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Bobalong

Just as thought as I read this thread.
The previous owner of my 70 GTO installed the RAlll exhaust manifolds. In addition he installed the tube that the battery cable passes thru.
It leads the + pos cable right between the hot cast iron manifold tubes on the drivers side down to the starter.
Now I pride myself on having a pretty factory stock looking car. Not 100% mind you but pretty close. In 08 during the first engine rebuild I eliminated that tube. I'm sure the Pontiac engineers had their reason for that cable route, but it just defied common sense to put an unfused, heavy cable right in harms way.
I bought a longer red cable and routed it down the front of the engine and then back to the starter. Is it factory correct ? NOPE. Out of harms way and I no longer worry about a melt down, short circuit, or catastrophic under hood fire.

I did the 67 RA manifold Battery Cable routing on my 64 when I installed the Manifolds on the engine.

1) The Pontiac Engineers did the Battery Cable routing change for a reason.

2) I emulated what they did.

3) I was able to use 1/0 AWG Tinned Copper Marine Terminals. (Copper die casting tinned battery terminals resist corrosion and are superior in Marine environments. They have high amperage flow for optimum performance.)

4) I heated the terminals, added the proper solder, and no issues for many, many years (with a touch up on the battery terminal and cable end with the proper wire brush battery terminal/post cleaning tool).

Tom V.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Bobalong

Just as thought as I read this thread.
The previous owner of my 70 GTO installed the RAlll exhaust manifolds. In addition he installed the tube that the battery cable passes thru.
It leads the + pos cable right between the hot cast iron manifold tubes on the drivers side down to the starter.
Now I pride myself on having a pretty factory stock looking car. Not 100% mind you but pretty close. In 08 during the first engine rebuild I eliminated that tube. I'm sure the Pontiac engineers had their reason for that cable route, but it just defied common sense to put an unfused, heavy cable right in harms way.
I bought a longer red cable and routed it down the front of the engine and then back to the starter. Is it factory correct ? NOPE. Out of harms way and I no longer worry about a melt down, short circuit, or catastrophic under hood fire.

This is exactly why I use a Ford starter relay to feed power down the heavy battery cable to the starter, and solenoid. I use a jumper from the battery post on the solenoid to the "s" post on the solenoid. This way, there is only power on the heavy battery cable when the engine is cranking. No worries about it shorting while driving. Also, you only have one wire to connect on the starter solenoid. A much better system than what the factory did. Also, don't think of the Ford starter relay as a Ford part on your Pontiac. Instead, simply think of it as a starter relay to improve/fix the factory starting system, which kind of sucks, really.
Ford got that one right! After all, you never hear of a Ford with a hot start/no crank situation.